RANT

[BikerRN]

Howdy all,

This rant of mine may offend some of you, but I think it needs to be said, so here goes.

The decrease in acceptable accuracy is sickening. If you look at qualification targets today they most often resemble shotgun patterns and not what should be considered accuracy under pressure. While it is a given that most people will have a degradation in their accuracy when involved in a real life encounter, I think to accept such on the range does a disservice to the shooter and society.

If you look at the gunfighters of the past, many were striving for supreme accuracy, and even competed or practiced for such. Thus when they were involved in a real life encounter they were still able to often put the bullets where they needed to go. It's not so important that you hit your target, be it human or game animal, but that you hit something vital. I have seen law enforcement qualifications where anything on the target is considered "acceptable". To me that is disgusting. Is that someone that I want near me when the chips are down?

Granted, qualification is not training, and the two need to be separated. If one is shooting fast and on the move, I would expect the groups to open up. The thing is though, shooting on the move is a more advanced skill, much akin to running an Olympic Track Event. You don't do that before you can walk. Many shooters are in what I consider the crawling stage, and need to move up to walking unsupported, much like a baby begins by crawling, then walking, and finally for those select few babies, running in the Olympics.

I would encourage everybody to spend some time trying to put all their shots in one hole at various ranges and not be happy until they do. The side benefit of that is improved accuracy and ability to focus. It takes a lot of concentration to shoot well at distance and I'm of the opinion that the ability to do so will improve your close range shooting.

Today we have all these "Tacticool" trainers that are trying to reinvent the wheel. Instead of reinventing the wheel why not incorporate more of the basics?

Biker

[mkm]

It's late, and I'm only on here because I can't sleep.  So, I can't think too indepth at the moment, but go to the link below for some previoius discussion on the topic.  It's about finding that balance between pattern size and speed.

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=15189.0

[fightingquaker13]

I'm not qualified to judge (but hey, its the board ). Personally I am a big believer in "good enough". That said, muscle memory is muscle memory, and stress detracts from that. Figure a 1" group on the range becomes 4" in real life. I think practicing basic skills can't be overstressed. Shoot clover leafs first, then run and gun. At th end of the day, those old skills are there to be called on. I'm with Biker, unless you have the basics down to the point where they are a reflex, the tactical stuff is not going to help you much. It boils down to whether you can hit what you aim at while not getting hit. The latter is what tactical training is for. The former? Its about putting holes in paper, and lots of them. Not preaching, just applying what I've learned from being a teacher to SD. If you don't have the basics down, the more advanced stuff is a waste of time.  
FQ13

[Texas_Bryan]

I agree with you.  I'm from a LE family, dad and uncle, and I've seen some wild ass extremes on the matter.  I have stated it here before, not as a testament to my own skill, but to demonstrate the lack of on LE's part, I remember going to the qualification range with my dad and his officers, after they got done qualifying I ran the 'test' and out shot most of them in points, I was twelve.  On the other extreme, demonstrating excellent proficiency, a tropper recently put twelve of thirteen rounds in a suspect during a gun fight, he was a combat Marine about a year home from Iraq.  Clearly some, but not all, people, be they LE or other wise, do not value marksmanship.  The troubling thing is, even folks that very well know they may rely on a weapon several times a day do not care.

And I figure, those first few rounds are going to be the ones that matter the most.  You aren't going to be doing all this jive ass slicing the pie, speed reloads, and all that razmataz if you're the one that got shot first.

[kmitch200]

Reminds me of shooting with a couple of friends a few weeks ago. They thought trying to break clay pigeons at 75 yds with a 1911 was insane - until I got 4 with the first mag standing unsupported.

Speed reloads and 'razmataz' is NOT out of the question unless you choose to take yourself out of the fight when injured.
Remember, getting shot does not equal incapacitation unless your CNS has taken major hit.

NEVER STOP FIGHTING!

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

Reminds me of shooting with a couple of friends a few weeks ago. They thought trying to break clay pigeons at 75 yds with a 1911 was insane - until I got 4 with the first mag standing unsupported.

Speed reloads and 'razmataz' is NOT out of the question unless you choose to take yourself out of the fight when injured.
Remember, getting shot does not equal incapacitation unless your CNS has taken major hit.

NEVER STOP FIGHTING!

That IS fun isn't it?

[kmitch200]

I got lucky and was having a good trigger day. 

[Timothy]

I got lucky and was having a good trigger day. 

I like shooting clays, they're cheap and you get a nice, simple, easy on these tired old eyes, instant gratification!  Got pretty good with my snubby out to 25-30 yards. 

Never tried much further than that with my 1911.  Lobbing 230 grain ball out 100 yards is quite a hold over!  Did hit an 8" steel plate out that far with half a mag one day though..the first half was my ranging, the last half I dinged the bell a few times.

 

[tombogan03884]

Ron Pincus has disagreed with me on this, but I'm a firm believer in "You fight like you train"
If you settle for "touching the silouette counts" in qualification, when you are relitively calm, under stress when you groups open up due to adrenilin and fear you will be lucky to hit at all.

[GASPASSERDELUXE]

I generally shoot for center of chest or head shots on the targets at about 7 yards. For finer work i throw shotgun cases up on the backstop at about 30 yards and shoot at them. Usually at least a 30% hit rate or close enough to scare them silly.