Washington State Police Set Off Firestorm With Gun Dealers

[twyacht]

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/wsp-jars-gun-dealers-sets-off-firestorm-atf-not-consulted

A detective with the Washington State Patrol ignited a firestorm yesterday when licensed gun dealers across the Evergreen State received a letter asking for documents listing sales of any AR-15 rifle over the past nine months, along with the names and personal information of people who bought those guns.

   According to the letter, the detective is “investigating a missing/stolen AR-15.”

   Alarms were raised late Thursday when the Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation began receiving calls from gun dealers around Western Washington. A discussion erupted on the Northwest Firearms forum, where an image of one letter is displayed.

   According to Cheryl Bishop, a spokesperson for the Seattle office of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the WSP did not consult her office before mailing the letters, which were dated March 9, and signed by a captain in the WSP’s Criminal Investigations Division. The letters apparently hit everyone’s mailboxes Thursday.

   Sources tell this column that a meeting occurred this morning involving State Patrol Chief John R. Batiste and at least one CID mid-level officer, reportedly because some of the alarmed gun dealers had contacted their state lawmakers. With the legislature now in session in Olympia, it was easy for those dealers to track down state senators and district representatives.

   One licensed dealer, Kit Wennersten of Marysville, is a retired police officer. He observed that the information requested in the letter is far too reaching for an investigation about a single stolen rifle. Here’s an excerpt from that letter:

    Please provide the following information:

    ·         Any and all documents/lists of sales of any AR-15 from July 1, 2010 to present.

    ·         Any and all documents of sales of any AR-15 lower receiver from July 1, 2010 to present.

    ·         Any and all documents/lists of sales of any AR-15 your company purchased from a private party.

    ·         Any and all names, date of births, addresses, phone numbers, date of transaction and serial number from the purchaser.

   However, there may be more to this. It may involve a stolen WSP rifle, and the WSP desperately wants it back.

   Some retailers and many gun activists theorized the detective may be trying to piece together an unofficial registry of these firearms, and they have simply decided to not cooperate with the request. ATF’s Bishop said there is no obligation for dealers to provide the requested information, which would be voluminous.

   Bishop talked with the WSP detective, and explained that what is being sought is “an unbelievable amount of information.”

   “The long and the short of this is that they sent this letter without having an understanding of the firearms industry,” Bishop said.

   She also told the detective that WSP better be prepared for the kinds of reactions the agency is now receiving.

   “They didn’t come to us first, they didn’t consult us,” Bishop said. “We didn’t know about the letter until yesterday when we started getting these phone calls.”

   The ATF office in Seattle has gotten a lot of those telephone calls, too. SAF confirmed that it has spoken with about a dozen gun dealers in places such as Port Angeles, Hoodsport, Tacoma, Bellevue and Marysville, and in Lewis County.

   Bishop said ATF is consulting with its legal staff to determine whether it would even be legal for dealers to provide the requested information. An ATF spokesman in Washington, D.C. confirmed that.

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[Big Frank]

Why didn't he just send a letter with the serial number of the missing rifle so the dealers can check their records for it?

[Hazcat]

Why didn't he just send a letter with the serial number of the missing rifle so the dealers can check their records for it?

That wouldn't get him a list of 'suspects'.

[MikeBjerum]

That wouldn't get him a round up list of 'suspects'.

FIFY

[mortdooley]

 All dealers should take this letter and write "NO" with a big black sharpie and send it back!

[Sponsor]

[alfsauve]

All dealers should take this letter and write "NO" with a big black sharpie and send it back!

I'd have to say a big negatory on that one.   Do NOT reply at all.

If they reply it indicates a willingness to engage in a dialog.   And that will only lead to trouble down the road.  Play your cards close to your chest.  Do not tell them what you're thinking.

Keep repeating the mantra.  Do not lie on government forms.  Do not talk to police.

Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law.

NOTHING you say will be used in your defense.

 

[MikeBjerum]

Will the BATF treat the Washington State Police like they would any other citizen of the United States?  Will there be legal punishment for over reaching their authority and demanding or ordering the release of information?  

If the BATF and the federal government are going to follow their long time promises that the Brady checks would not be used against legal purchasers this is one more chance to follow that promise.  Now that we are reminded that lower levels of government see the infringements as a way to get at us, we need to remember how important our vigilance is.

[MikeBjerum]

I'd have to say a big negatory on that one.   Do NOT reply at all.

If they reply it indicates a willingness to engage in a dialog.   And that will only lead to trouble down the road.  Play your cards close to your chest.  Do not tell them what you're thinking.

Keep repeating the mantra.  Do not lie on government forms.  Do not talk to police.

Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law.

NOTHING you say will be used in your defense.

 

I will add that if you purchased an AR-15 in Washington and the police show up at your door in send you a communication of any sort - Call your attorney, contact your elected representatives and at the appropriate time (after legal council's ok) pass on the issue to every gun Rights group you can think of.

[tombogan03884]

I disagree with a complete refusal to cooperate. After all, if he is legitimately trying to track a stolen firearm he is just doing the job we are paying him for. One that benefits us all.
In that case the best course would be for the dealers, through legal, and elected representatives, to educate him on the ins and outs of the industry, including such things as the use of serial numbers.
That being said, based on the information requested, the excuse of tracking down a "stolen" (more likely lost ) WSP patrol rifle sounds like a smoke screen for a fishing expedition.
I agree with the people who say don't talk to the Cops yourself, lawyers spend years in school for that, it's why they get the big bucks.

[MikeBjerum]

Based on BATF's response I gather that this is not information that local law enforcement should be able to freely access.  What the officer should have done is addressed the FFLs with a request for information on a specific gun or guns of specific serial number(s).  The next step would be to obtain a warrant to follow up on positive hits or refusals.  Where BATF would fall in on these two areas I don't know.

Bottom line is that while I do agree with cooperation there is a way it needs to be done to remain legal and not to get yourself in trouble.  Like I said before, if a law enforcement officer showed up at my door demanding to see my guns I would be on the phone to an attorney before they gained access unless they produced a warrant - at which point I would be on the phone to my attorney!