Author Topic: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This  (Read 1884 times)

twyacht

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Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« on: March 22, 2011, 08:41:51 PM »
Alright, I don't wire up or maintain airplanes, BUT do get elbow deep in yacht electrical systems. If I let this type of crap get signed off on,.....my a** would be on a plate, and than be fired.

Damaged United Jet Catches Fire After Flying Without Repairs


WASHINGTON (AP) — A United Airlines plane with 112 people aboard was allowed to take off last May without repairs despite indications during two previous flights that the cockpit window was overheating, a condition long known to cause fires, according to evidence gathered by federal investigators.


The Boeing 757 was about 30 minutes into a flight from New York to San Francisco, and had just leveled off at 36,000 feet, when pilots said they heard a hissing noise followed seconds later by 14- to 16-inch flames shooting from the cockpit window near the captain, documents recently released by the National Transportation Safety Board show.


Capt. Boyd Hammack, who had been flying the plane, told investigators he got out of his seat, grabbed a Halon fire extinguisher and put out the flames. But he said they quickly reignited. A flight attendant brought him a second fire extinguisher, which he emptied on the flames, putting them out again.

Shortly before making an emergency landing at Washington Dulles International Airport in Virginia, the inner pane of the window in front of Hammack shattered, the documents show. He turned over control of the plane to the first officer, who safely landed the aircraft.

Another United captain who had flown the same plane earlier that day told investigators he reported fumes and an overheated electrical connection when he landed at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York, according a summary of his interview with investigators.

Capt. Robert Caponetti told investigators he showed a mechanic an electrical connection at the window on the captain’s side of the cockpit that appeared blackened or charred and was hot.
He also said the plane had made an unscheduled landing in Las Vegas the previous day because of smoke and fumes in the cockpit.

The mechanic, also interviewed by investigators, said he OK‘d the plane to fly without repairs because United’s maintenance manual says planes can be flown another 50 hours after a blackened or burned window heater electrical connector had been found. A blackened, burned or hot electrical connection is a sign of uncontained electricity, which can cause fires.


 :o

“We did a full inspection and believed the plane was flight worthy,” United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy said.

Federal aviation officials have known for years that cockpit window heaters in some Boeing planes catch fire. But prior to the United incident they hadn’t required airlines to fix the problem, even after dozens of incidents that unnerved pilots and, in many cases, forced emergency landings.


Accident investigators had traced the problem to a simple loose screw. NTSB has urged the Federal Aviation Administration since 2004 to require airlines to replace the windows with a new design.

Nearly two months after the United incident, FAA ordered airlines to inspect the cockpit window heaters on 1,212 Boeing airliners. But the order doesn’t require airlines to replace the windows unless evidence of damage is found.

The order also gives airlines a choice of installing windows of the same design or the new design. Carriers that choose old design replacements must continue to inspect windows at regular intervals.

McCarthy said United has complied with FAA’s order for inspections and is replacing windows with the new design “when they are up for replacement.” She said she didn’t know what would trigger a replacement.

United has also made “enhancements to our maintenance program,” she said.


***

Boy,...I feel better already,....at least they can inspect the shattered windshield AFTER the crash,....

Sheesh,....My A** would be burned at the stake if I worked with this attitude,...oh wait,...are the airline mechanics UNION?
Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

fightingquaker13

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 09:57:14 PM »
TW, don't even think about blaming the unions here. This was purely corporate. The order was "fufill all the FAA requirments and don'ttell me about a multi-million dollar problem unless you have to, and BTW, here you don't have to, so don't". The airline knew about this, the FAA knew anout this and Boeing knew about this. They did nothing and hoped nothing bad would happen and it would saveembarrassment and money. This call wasn't made on the shop floor, it was made in the board room. The only way the mechanic would have gotten fired was if he had made a stink over it.
FQ13

jnevis

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 10:21:02 AM »
Look at the tour buss investigation in NY right now.  A bus coming from a CT casino went over and killed 15.  The driver was using an alias DL because his real one was suspended.  NY State Police started doing increased checkpoint inspections of tour busses and pulled 14 of 20 off the road at ONE checkpoint in one day.  They were looking for DL issues, log books, and mechanical failures on the buses and found all  of the above.  Airlines are no different.  "Get the people moving" doesn't matter if it's 100% or not.

On another note, the FAA has a formula that they use when mandating ADs (Aircraft Directives).  It is based on a passenger being worth say $150K.  If an AD cost more than the cost of losing a percentage of the passengers (we'll say 10%) on the effected aircrarft times the number of aircraft in the fleet, it becomes optional to the airlines.  Once the cost is less than the above calulation it is mandatory.  ValueJet is an example.  The cost of fire sensors in cargo bays was more than the "payout" amount, until valueJet lost the aircraft in the Everglades a few years back.  There were more people on the plane than the threshold and now the FAA mandates sensors in cargo bays.  Forced landings and minor maintenance actions don't "cost" anything so it is optional.
When seconds mean the difference between life and death, the police will be minutes away.

You are either SOLVING the problem, or you ARE the problem.

tt11758

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 12:07:29 PM »
Just one more reason (as if the TSA cavity searches weren't reason enough) I'll be driving, not flying, pretty much anywhere I go in the foreseeable future.
I love waking up every morning knowing that Donald Trump is President!!

TAB

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 02:03:08 PM »
Knowing how much those windows cost and how much work it is to replace them, I'm not shocked.


I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #5 on: Today at 04:52:02 PM »

jnevis

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 07:29:12 PM »
Knowing how much those windows cost and how much work it is to replace them, I'm not shocked.

Ain't that the truth.  Our windscreens down the plane for at least two days.  It takes about four hours to get the old one out and at least that long to get the new one in.  Then it has to be sealed.  It has to dry for 24 hours, then a pressure check has to be done before the electrical can be reattached, then op checked.
When seconds mean the difference between life and death, the police will be minutes away.

You are either SOLVING the problem, or you ARE the problem.

tombogan03884

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 07:31:07 PM »
Geez, They can do a Heart transplant faster than that !

twyacht

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 07:35:32 PM »
TW, don't even think about blaming the unions here. This was purely corporate.

FQ, welcome back, but I call BS on that. Corporate isn't going to dirty their pretty suits for the tech/mechanic in the field. Perhaps me, and the company I work for, hold ourselves to a higher standard of professionalism, and responsibility.

You don't kick the can down the road, people's lives are at risk, not just in aviation, but in marine, auto, etc,....

Sorry, the mechanic copped out,.....because he was too irresponsible, or sheeple indoctrinated, to keep the plane on the ground long enough to fix it properly.

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

fightingquaker13

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 08:46:42 PM »
Corporate will tell him to work to FAA regs and leave it that. You think the line workers didn't know the Pinto's gas tank was iffy? The bottom line here is the bottom line. The cost of fixing the problem and grounding a jet for a couple of days is huge. If the government won't make them do it, or they don't think they will get sued companies will gloss over "minor" safety stuff. The historical record is clear on that.
FQ13

twyacht

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Re: Boy Would I Be FIRED For This
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 08:56:09 PM »
Corporate doesn't even involve themselves with such minusha; he's union supervisor says, "Put it on the record, and file it"...For the next mechanic, at another airport. If the Pinto's gas tank or windshield heaters are iffy, why aren't they raising the red flag and saying WTF?

Glossing over "minor safety" stuff gets folks dead....at least they stand a chance to get into a life raft/boat at sea,.....hard to do at 35,000feet.

If I see a safety issue, I show the Capt./Crew, take a pic with my camera, document it, have them sign and acknowledge the issue, and if they don't want it repaired, and the boat catches fire, guess who they will want to sue first?

Me with my SIGNED ack. that the Capt. knew about it. Goes the same for the maint. crews of aircraft....I doubt our military flight crews are so lax....

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

 

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