Author Topic: Gunman kills 7 in spree shooting in Dutch mall  (Read 1764 times)

Ocin

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Gunman kills 7 in spree shooting in Dutch mall
« on: April 09, 2011, 01:00:09 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/09/dead-gunman-opens-dutch-shopping-mall/

Ok, it has happened here in The Netherlands as well, a gunman on a shooting spree. Very little is known as of yet, the only thing that we have in abundance are rumours.

Apparently, 7 people were killed: 5 victims died at the scene, the shooter killed himself and one injured died in the hospital. Currently, there are 3 serious injured people and 7 lighter injured people in the hospital.

According to the D.A. the gunman "appeared to have used a full automatic weapon". (not sute what to make of this, sounds a bit like "appears to be pregnant")

The identity of the shooter is known by the authorities but has as of yet not been released. He was a Dutch male, caucasian, 25 years of age and with a criminal record (as confirmed by the D.A.), but initial rumours as to the shooter being a (former) soldier have been denied.

Rumours that his mother worked at one of the shops in the mall have not beern confirmed.

The identity of the victims have not yet been released on account that the next of kin have not yet been notified.

His car has been searched by the bomb sqad. Based on a note found in that car police decided to clear 3 more malls. The kind of threat in that note has not been released.
Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.
Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446 (Beacon Press paperback edition)

fullautovalmet76

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Re: Gunman kills 7 in spree shooting in Dutch mall
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2011, 01:44:27 PM »
Ocin,
That is terrible what happened.  :(
Is it legal to purchase or possess a select-fire weapon (automatic rifle or sub machinegun) in the Netherlands?

twyacht

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Re: Gunman kills 7 in spree shooting in Dutch mall
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2011, 05:08:24 PM »
Very tragic Ocin. I'm not aware of the specific gun laws in the Netherlands/Holland countries, I "assume" it is like main stream Europe with restrictions upon restrictions, if not outright banning of firearms.

Let us know what the local firearm "regulations" are..If they are not like the UK,.... after this, they just very well might be.

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

Ocin

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Re: Gunman kills 7 in spree shooting in Dutch mall
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 08:10:23 AM »
Update on the situation: Death toll stands on 7, including the shooter, there were 9 injuries, 2 of them still in hospital but not critical.

The shooter did not have a criminal history as I stated earlier, but has been admitted to a closed institution in 2006 for 10 days because of suicidal behaviour. He did have a gun license and the guns listed on that license have been used by him. Inspection by the D.A. and the police have made clear that none of the weapons were full automatic or altered in such a way that they would function as a full automatic weapon.

Currently there are 3 separate investigations on going:

The first by the local police on the how and why of the shooting and the background of the shooter: How did it happen that he derailed in such a way that he was prepared to take 6 people with him in his death,

The second by the federal police on how he could obtain a firearms license: Was his mental history known to the issuing authorities, if yes, why was nothing done with that information, if no, could and/or should they have known and were all procedures and regulations followed as they should,

The third investigation is held by the National Safetyboard on the laws, procedures and regulations as such: are there gaps or holes in the law and/or procedures and regulations as a result of which people who should not be issued a firearms license can still obtain one.

As far as the law in general concerns, (mind you, i am not a lawyer or so but just a layman), the law states clearly that owning and/or having a weapon or anything that could be used as a weapon, is illegal. Especially that "could be used" is very important: you cannot take a baseball bat with you to the local bar, saying "i like baseball", as it could be used as a weapon.

There is a specific section in the law for items which look innocent but can be converted to weapons on the spot or hide weapons within them, like a kane with a sword or a stiletto in it or a gun conceiled in the casing of a cell phone. This also includes things like tasers and mace or pepper spray.

Further more there is a seperate section for military weapons as tanks, missiles, artillery, flamethrowers and (indeed) full automatic weapons. These are only for official use by the government i.e. armed forces and police.

Owning knives, sowrds, battleaxes and such, not as a weapon but as decoration is legal, but you can't carry those with you, with the exception of small pocket knives (no switchblades and stilettos and so).

"Ordinary" guns, like a pistol, (semi-automatic) rifle, revolver or so are illegal, but can be licensed as an exception. You have to proof that you have a "legitimate" need for having such a weapon. Being a sports shooter can be such a reason. In order to prove that you are a sports shooter you have to be a member with a local gunclub as well as the national gunclub and after a waiting period of a year (in which you have to shoot regularly, to be proven by the ledger of the club, in which you register each time you shoot) you can apply for a license to have one firearm. This license will have to be renewed every year and after that first year you can get a license for more (max. 5) guns. Theoretically, a need to defend yourself can be a reason to issue a firearms license, but in reality that will never happen, simply because the authorities will not accept any argument (including the slug a surgeon may have taken out of your chest) as sufficient proof.

These guns have to be stored in a safe, approved by the police, with the ammo stored seperately. Only the licensee should have acces to those weapons. This means that if the spouse of the licensee (he or she is not listed on the license) has acces to the contents of the safe as well, you are in violation and the license will be revoked and the guns seized.

Breaking these laws is considered to be a serious offence, especially when millitary weapons (handgrenades, machineguns) or conceiled weapons like that kane with a sword or a gun disquised as a phone are found on you or your property.  This will get you a stiff jail sentence, allthough the jail sentences here in The Netherlands are nowhere near as tough as with you in the US.

This essay has gotten a bit longer then I anticipated, but I hope you get some more insights on how difficult it is to get and own a firearm legally here in The Netherlands. So, next time you guys complain about gun restrictions in your country, please remind yourself of the people who are even worse off then you!  :-*

Ocin.
Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.
Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446 (Beacon Press paperback edition)

fullautovalmet76

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Re: Gunman kills 7 in spree shooting in Dutch mall
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 06:16:47 PM »
Thanks for the info, Ocin. And this begs the question: with all of these gun laws that were there to "protect" the public, are they really effective and necessary? My answer is "No" but I'm not a citizen of that country.

Take care,
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Re: Gunman kills 7 in spree shooting in Dutch mall
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:08:11 AM »

twyacht

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Re: Gunman kills 7 in spree shooting in Dutch mall
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 08:52:03 PM »
Thank you as well Ocin, it still brings to the forefront, despite any and all gun regulations, banning, restricting, limiting, etc,....will still have an individual, bent on death and carnage, getting a firearm,......

Too bad, just like the U.S.,(almost) is  that LEGAL gun owners suffer the consequences of a fruitcake, hell bent on harming others, while the rest of the citizenry is left disarmed.....

They are removing fire extinguishers from apt. bldgs. in Britain, as vandals and other punks are using them as pranks and weapons..

Thank you Nanny state,......thank you....

"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it."
William Burroughs
Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

 

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