CHEAP Generator review

[alfsauve]

Well Badger, true at short distances 14ga may be fine,  problem is most people don't put the generator next to the fridge.  To tweak all you can from these generators, especially at 100ft or more a heavier gauge cable will help.

Here's a reference chart with some explanation.  14gauge extension cord pulling 15amps will drop over 9v or more than 7%.

And as far as ridiculously long cables messing up the phasing/frequency;  you're talking in terms of miles before that happens.  Roughly speaking the wavelength of 60Hz is around 2,500 miles (depending on velocity factor).   I don't think a couple of hundred feet is going to be significant.

[Badgersmilk]

I had no idea anybody ever made an extension cord that long.  I remember it being in training manuals to limit extension cords to 18' in length.  To many years ago to remember the full explanation of why.    But I've seen a 8% change in Hz.  (according to a "killawatt" meter grant you) on a 12ga, 60' extension cord running 13.5 amps of power through it (a freezer).  Didn't hurt the freezer, but it did cause issues trying to charge a laptop computer.  One reason it's recommended to go one size up in wire gauge with an extension cord is that their made from multi-strand wire so they will be flexible.  House wiring is single strand = more efficient.  It causes less harm to run an oversized extension cord than an undersized one by far!!!  So for those convinced "bigger is always better"...  Run with it! 

Another tip I'd like to pass on is for the new "childproof" or whatever their supposed to be gas cans.  I've shopped far and wide for a gas can that just has a plain old spout and vent, but can't find them anymore.  The new childproof / safety cans don't have vents at all, and if you keep gas in them for more than one day you'll see them swell and contract a LOT with temperature changes.  One I had in my shed swelled to near balloon shape on a hot day!  I came up with this idea, and it's served really well on several cans for years now.  I drill a hole about 3/8" near the handle on the cans and put in an ear plug.  The ear plug allows filtered venting, keeping out contaminates and bugs, and if you knock over the can by accident there won't be any spillage if you catch it soon enough.  The cans do swell and contract a TINY bit with temperature, but only a very small amount till the air pushes through the "filter" / ear plug.

One concern I had was that the gas would dissolve the ear plug or something.  But I've not seen any sign of this in about 5 years now.

[Solus]

One reason it's recommended to go one size up in wire gauge with an extension cord is that their made from multi-strand wire so they will be flexible.  House wiring is single strand = more efficient.

Hmmmm.   I had read that electricity is the movement of electrons on the surface of a wire more than internally and, thus, multi-strand wire conducts more electricity than solid wire of the same gauge due to the increased surface area.

Incorrect?

[Badgersmilk]

I can only tell you for sure what I've seen on meters in use in the field.  And on heavy equipment running on 480V.  But we've consistently seen multi-strand (and the more strands, the more heat was generated / resistance there was) cause more line loss than solid strand.  Could be broken strands in the cable?  Maybe, but a lot of the time it was new stock...   

[alfsauve]

I had no idea anybody ever made an extension cord that long.  I remember it being in training manuals to limit extension cords to 18' in length.  To many years ago to remember the full explanation of why.    But I've seen a 8% change in Hz.  (according to a "killawatt" meter grant you) on a 12ga, 60' extension cord running 13.5 amps of power through it (a freezer).  Didn't hurt the freezer, but it did cause issues trying to charge a laptop computer.  One reason it's recommended to go one size up in wire gauge with an extension cord is that their made from multi-strand wire so they will be flexible.  House wiring is single strand = more efficient.  It causes less harm to run an oversized extension cord than an undersized one by far!!!  So for those convinced "bigger is always better"...  Run with it! 

Badger, I'm afraid that's backwards about solid verses stranded wires.   Electricity tends to flow in the outside of a conductor; on the surface.  A stranded cable has more surface area (adding all the individual strands together) than a solid conductor of the same dimension.  Hence stranded wires have less loss.  The difference isn't all that significant if you build in a safety factor to begin with.

The reason they use solid conductors in house wiring is primarily cost.  (That and they don't need the flexibility) Solid cabling with thin sheaths is cheaper than standed wire, by a greater than 2/1 margin.

And I pretty sure the frequency didn't change 8% over a 60' extension cord.  I suspect the meter probably isn't rate for 10% tolerance.     Phase shifting may occur but the frequency is a pretty constant thing.

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

Badger, I'm afraid that's backwards about solid verses stranded wires.   Electricity tends to flow in the outside of a conductor; on the surface.  A stranded cable has more surface area (adding all the individual strands together) than a solid conductor of the same dimension.  Hence stranded wires have less loss.  The difference isn't all that significant if you build in a safety factor to begin with.

The reason they use solid conductors in house wiring is primarily cost.  (That and they don't need the flexibility) Solid cabling with thin sheaths is cheaper than standed wire, by a greater than 2/1 margin.

And I pretty sure the frequency didn't change 8% over a 60' extension cord.  I suspect the meter probably isn't rate for 10% tolerance.     Phase shifting may occur but the frequency is a pretty constant thing.

Alf is correct on all counts.  

Stranded wire will allow more power without dissipating heat better than solid core wire as well.  

[Badgersmilk]

I'm at a loss (And concede that the thread is simply all about drift now).  So everybody is 100% sure their houses are wired completely wrong, and that 14gauge wire is just silly for 15 amps?  The average strand of wire feeding an outlet in a two story house is what?  30-50'?  Buuuut, you need a 10gauge extension cord for a little 8 amp generator that sits right outside you back door?

Sweet! 

[PegLeg45]

Worth the money when working with 'tricity.   

http://www.neccodebooks.com/products/2011-national-electrical-code-9069-11.shtml

[Timothy]

Normal house wiring is about how many convenience outlets can be associated to a single 15 amp breaker,size of the room etc....  I haven't looked in years but that number used to be 12 I think.  In other words, 6 duplex outlets was allowed on that circuit or 5 duplex with an overhead light fixture.  Wire of 14 gauge is more than enough to handle that load.  When I wired my homes, with an electrical inspectors blessing, I always used 12 gauge wire on a 20 amp dedicated breaker for the refer, dishwasher, clothes washers, etc...and general spent the extra cash to use GFI breakers rather than the outlet types.  My kitchens were always over designed because you tend to use larger loads on those circuits.

Remember the load that can be carried is dependent on the breaker size regardless of the gauge of wire used.

Pegleg is more current (no pun intended) on this than I am at this point.  My NEC code book is dated about 1988 or so..

[alfsauve]

No No, Badger.   Not saying houses are wired wrong.   14gauge solid is find for internal house wiring where the blow dryer is probably one of the heavier loads.   And where the electrician has spread out the loads by running seemingly random pattern of outlets and lights on each circuit.  

Difference here is trying to squeeze the most out of a small generator.  Particularly when trying to run inductive loads, like refrigerators along with as many other things as we can cram on that circuit.  

The other factor is a safety one with the covering.   Well sheathed SOOW is so much safer than consumer extension cords.   They'll take water, oil and other chemicals without breaking down.  Plus they'll stand up to physical abuse better.  Physical abuse, like foot traffic and trying to close the door or window on them.

Now as to making "connections" with stranded wire:   If the connector or circuit breaker is designed for stranded wire it will have a "clamp" of some kind that insure proper contact with the stranded wire.    If on the other hand the connector only has a screw and was intended for solid wire, then slip a copper ferrule (sleeve) over the stranded wire before slipping it into the connector.   This will  insure proper contact with the wire bundle and prevents the set screw from breaking the top set of wires.   I also use ferrules in distro and breaker panels with stranded since most circuit breakers were designed for solid.     And of course once you get above 6gauge most all wire is stranded anyway.