Open Carry in Philly - Recorded mtg w/Police

[Paraguy]

Here is a link to a posting of someone who was open carrying (legally) in Philadelphia and recorded the discussion he had with the police who stopped him for open carrying.  Be warned, the language is not appropriate for work or around children, but the expletives were not from the citizen.  I have a lot of respect for police, but it appears that this was not the right way for the officer to handle the situation.  Locally, the commissioner stated that the language used was not acceptable.

TBD presented the best way and some not so "best" ways to handle interactions with Law Enforcement when carrying a firearm.  This is a real world scenario that presents some interesting topics for discussion, it would be interesting to hear people's opinions and observations of this event.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

[fightingquaker13]

M'lette has it right. Here's the thing, you are never going to win arguing with the cops, and if there are guns involved its bone stupid to try. If they feel threatened they will shoot you and walk away.If you feel threatened and shoot, you're looking at the needle. Comply and let the lawyers hash it out. Its cold comfort being right and dead.
FQ13

[Marshal Halloway]

More on this story:

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/Open-Carry-Experiment-Shows-Cops-Dont-Know-Their-Own-Gun-Laws-121989564.html

http://nation.foxnews.com/justice/2011/05/17/philly-police-harass-threaten-shoot-man-legally-carrying-gun-warning-explicit-lan

http://biggovernment.com/jlott/2011/05/17/why-it-can-be-valuable-to-carry-a-gun-and-a-recorder/

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/columnists/121973154.html

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Man-Has-Exposed-Gun-in-Phila-Charged-121932474.html

[mkm]

I listened to all 3 parts.

The guy was generally polite, but he probably should have been a bit more cooperative, ie got on the ground when told.  Even though he was legal, when a cop has his gun pointed at you, it is not time to negotiate and make a stand (in my opinion).  The cops were a bit overly aggressive, especially the first guy and whoever was the first of his backup.

I can almost understand one cop not knowing that open carry was legal (maybe he missed the memo), but the 7 or 8 it sounded like were present and everybody on the radio.  Someone should have been able to say very quickly that it's legal for the guy to open carry; he even gave them the directive number.  There was no reason it should have taken that long and still, although letting him walk free with his gun, be unclear.

I prefer concealed (no need for anyone else to know it's there) but think open should be allowed.  For those that choose to do so, certain times, and when the gun is accidentally revealed, it's nice to know it's alright.

On a side note, I think the guy was looking for something like this to happen.  He was already prepared with the tape recorder and knew what was required to file an internal affairs report.  I don't think the average IT (his job) or most any other person would know how to do that without prior planning.

Ultimately, he was in the right but better thank God every night he's not dead.

[Teresa Heilevang]

Seriously??A "bit more cooperative"?? How could he have been a bit more cooperative when he had a cop that was so scared all he could do was scream and cuss.. ? He couldn't get a word in edge wise.. 
 I'd STILL sue their ignorant dumb asses til they were shittin' out of tin cans for the rest of their days. 
God, I hate idiot power hungry tin badge wanna be's.!!/b]

[Sponsor]

[Marshal Halloway]

FYI:

"Several weeks after the altercation, after it was posted on YouTube, Commissioner Charles Ramsey had detectives look into the case, Evers said. On April 21, Evers said, Fiorino was arrested on charges of disorderly conduct and recklessly endangering another person."

Source: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Man-Has-Exposed-Gun-in-Phila-Charged-121932474.html

[Marshal Halloway]

Here's another article/summary:

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/05/16/just-do-whatever-the-police-say/

[mkm]

Seriously??A "bit more cooperative"?? How could he have been a bit more cooperative when he had a cop that was so scared all he could do was scream and cuss.. ? He couldn't get a word in edge wise..  
 I'd STILL sue their ignorant dumb asses til they were shittin' out of tin cans for the rest of their days.  
God, I hate idiot power hungry tin badge wanna be's.!!/b]

I'm not defending the cop at all, but the guy did not do exactly what he was told.  And, it really didn't get too rowdy and cuss filled until backup arrived.  The guy was very polite, but he did not get on the ground the first time he was asked.  The cop was not willing to listen and, like you said, was too scared with a gun drawn to be reasonably dealt with.  They guy should have fully complied (we don't have video so the finer things are unknown) showing his hands and getting on the ground.  Once the cop feels safer and puts his gun away, the guy could have started fighting his case. If it still ended up the same, proceed with necessary legal matters as necessary.

No matter how right you are, a scared cop with his gun drawn is not someone with whom to debate.

[kmitch200]

FYI:

"Several weeks after the altercation, after it was posted on YouTube, Commissioner Charles Ramsey had detectives look into the case, Evers said. On April 21, Evers said, Fiorino was arrested on charges of disorderly conduct and recklessly endangering another person."

Source: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Man-Has-Exposed-Gun-in-Phila-Charged-121932474.html

Since it was the cop that "recklessly endangered" another person why wasn't HE arrested.

Oh, I forgot....he's a cop - he can do anything he feels like. (including not following his own departments directives or PA law)

[Teresa Heilevang]

No matter how right you are, a scared cop with his gun drawn is not someone with whom to debate.

That is very true... and you are right as rain on that.. It just makes me soooooo mad!!!!