Oppose HR 2164 the selling out of America

[tombogan03884]

Punish the employers ! They hire illegals because they can get them cheaper than Americans and treat them like shit in ways an American would not tolerate.

[fightingquaker13]

Indeed. And you won't have to put many CEOs in jail before folks get the message. Perp walk the CEOS of say Hormel and Motel 6 on multiple felony counts including conspiracy and running a continuing criminal enterprise, and I think a lot of folks will come to Jesus speedy quick.
FQ13

[MikeBjerum]

Sounds good to me. Using e-verify should be an affirmative defense. Its not your fault if the green card is faked or stolen, if it comes back good from Uncle Sam you are good to go. However, we need to make sure you can't "head fake" this to quote Rastus by just hiring temps from an agency. You should have to show that they have a policy of using e-verify as well (written in your contract say), otherwise its easy to avoid. But if you combine this with running sting operations on the guys who hire from the day labor pools you will see a change. If folks can't find work they will leave. Arizona chased a lot of folks out even though its law is still tied up in court. If there is a nationwide requirement for e-verify, I don't think I need to believe in the Great Pumpkin to think its going make it a lot harder for illegals to get hired, and that's a good thing.
FQ13

You are talking like a person trying to get around it!

Place of business is the one responsible!  When the big green bus arrives at a place of business or residence it is that address that is responsible.  I'm kind of a black and white guy and don't buy the "it's not my fault BS"

Biggest problem with this is the same thing that sends our jobs overseas:  The people that demand low prices for their mass quantities will not stand for paying a fair wage so their neighbors can have a job that pays well.  Have you ever noticed that the same people that scream about pollution in the United States are the same ones that will shop at WalMart for products made in China with materials we ban, using labor practices we forbid, and cranking out pollution at twice the rate we allow?

The do gooders claim that we need to be good humanitarians, but down deep they just want cheap produce on the market shelves and cheap construction workers, and illegals provide that.

[fightingquaker13]

Look, I am quite willing to set up a guest worker program for agriculture. Farmers have it hard, migrant work sucks, and wages are going to be low. But for the rest of it? I have no sympathy for employers who say we can't pay more. Look, 20 years ago we didn't have nearly the level of illegal immigration. And if I recall hotels and restaurants and meat packing plants still operated. Granted most people did mow their own lawn, but beyond that, the world still turned much as it does now with folks offering a high enough wage to attract an American. What's any different now other than a large pool of cheap illegal labor driving down wages?
FQ13

[Solus]

Look, I am quite willing to set up a guest worker program for agriculture. Farmers have it hard, migrant work sucks, and wages are going to be low. But for the rest of it? I have no sympathy for employers who say we can't pay more. Look, 20 years ago we didn't have nearly the level of illegal immigration. And if I recall hotels and restaurants and meat packing plants still operated. Granted most people did mow their own lawn, but beyond that, the world still turned much as it does now with folks offering a high enough wage to attract an American. What's any different now other than a large pool of cheap illegal labor driving down wages?
FQ13

Too many ways for those who would rather not work and who would not work to advance to get a free lunch.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

Too many ways for those who would rather not work and who would not work to advance to get a free lunch.

Fewer now than then though. Between the welfare reforms under Reagan and Clinton, as well as generaly more stringent state requirements, its harder to get a hand out now than it was twenty or thirty years ago. The difference is the fact that our borders leak like a sieve, employers face no sanctions and every one is too afraid of being called a racist to do anything about it.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

You are talking like a person trying to get around it!

Place of business is the one responsible!  When the big green bus arrives at a place of business or residence it is that address that is responsible.  I'm kind of a black and white guy and don't buy the "it's not my fault BS"

Biggest problem with this is the same thing that sends our jobs overseas:  The people that demand low prices for their mass quantities will not stand for paying a fair wage so their neighbors can have a job that pays well.  Have you ever noticed that the same people that scream about pollution in the United States are the same ones that will shop at WalMart for products made in China with materials we ban, using labor practices we forbid, and cranking out pollution at twice the rate we allow?

The do gooders claim that we need to be good humanitarians, but down deep they just want cheap produce on the market shelves and cheap construction workers, and illegals provide that.

You have to write the law to anticipate just those people, and it is not because people don't want to pay more for products, it is because employers can charge top dollar and put more money in their pocket.

Fewer now than then though. Between the welfare reforms under Reagan and Clinton, as well generlly more stringent state requirements, ist harder to get a hand out now than it was twenty or thirty years ago. The difference is the fact that our borders leak like a sieve, employers face no sanctions and every one is too afraid of being called a racist to do anything about it.
FQ13

Bullshit

[rojawe]

No I'm saying this bill has to many loopholes and will do nothing to any illegal here and employers will say O he worked for me and doesn't have to go thru E-Verify. When the Chamber backs a immigration bill were screwed, we need to change the bill and get the loopholes out. Sounds good but not with us being sold out with a poorly written bill and the likes of the chamber cheering.

[fightingquaker13]

No I'm saying this bill has to many loopholes and will do nothing to any illegal here and employers will say O he worked for me and doesn't have to go thru E-Verify. When the Chamber backs a immigration bill were screwed, we need to change the bill and get the loopholes out. Sounds good but not with us being sold out with a poorly written bill and the likes of the chamber cheering.

If its backed by the Chamber, or worse yet the Farm Bureau or the CatholciChuch, you are right to say we should look at the fine print. Still, I think a no BS requirement to use E-verify, not being able to get around it by hiring temp agencies or using labor contractors, and putting those who don't and deliberately hire illegals in jail is the only sane way to solve the problem.
FQ13

[tt11758]

I think it's time to change my meds.......................I agree with FQ on most of what he's posted in this thread.