FLASH MOB DEFENSE

[Majer]

M-58, the lack of any weapons in your example is the perfect example of why a less than lethal defensive tool should be carried along with a firearm.How many of Y'all carry pepper spray and know how and when to use it?

[tombogan03884]

M-58, the lack of any weapons in your example is the perfect example of why a less than lethal defensive tool should be carried along with a firearm.How many of Y'all carry pepper spray and know how and when to use it?

There is legal precedent that numbers alone constitute a potentially lethal threat.
Being beaten to death with out a weapon is a fairly common cause of death in murder cases, far more common than death by gunshot.
If I am in fear for my life or the lives of others lethal force is the only reasonable resort.
Half measures will only increase the risk of injury to myself and others by prolonging the incident.

[Majer]

Tom, if you can prove that you went to a less than lethal option before using deadly force it will look a lot better for you in court.

[tombogan03884]

Tom, if you can prove that you went to a less than lethal option before using deadly force it will look a lot better for you in court.

Not my problem.
My problem is surviving what I reasonably feel is a life threatening situation.
Presenting it in the best possible light is a problem for the lawyer.
If that isn't your priority then you will not survive and you will not care what the jury thinks.

[MikeBjerum]

Tom, if you can prove that you went to a less than lethal option before using deadly force it will look a lot better for you in court.

At this point I am trained and certified to use lethal force.  I have an understanding of how to use my light in hand combat, but I am only trained in using it as a deterrent or blinding tool.  I am scheduled for training and instructor certification in pepper spray items, but at this time I am not.

With all of this if I feel in danger of serious injury or loss of life my training and ability leans toward lethal force.  Once I get past the usefulness of the light I have no other tool to stop the threat other than lethal.  It would be easier for me to defend my use of lethal force than to use a pepper product without the training.

Best tool is still awareness and react before you find yourself in a situation where any resistance is needed.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Cross posted from "less lethal"

If you are in fear of injury or death, a gun is the most efficient, effective, and practical solution.
If you are not in fear of injury or death then you have no excuse for initiating violence and will be in the wrong even if you slap the other person.

[MikeBjerum]

Cross posted from "less lethal"

If you are in fear of injury or death, a gun is the most efficient, effective, and practical solution.
If you are not in fear of injury or death then you have no excuse for initiating violence and will be in the wrong even if you slap the other person.

+1

[Magoo541]

Tom, if you survive and can prove that you went to a less than lethal option before using deadly force it will look a lot better for you in court.

FIFY

Disparity of force as grounds for the use of deadly force goes back to the Old Testament when God struck down a mob coming to do bad things to Lot and his family.

Would you convict a 88 year-old lady of murder if she shot and killed a 25 year-old thug that assaulter her in her home, parking lot, bingo hall or park because she didn't hit him with her cane first? 

God made man, Colt made man equal.

[tombogan03884]

Tom, if you can prove that you went to a less than lethal option before using deadly force it will look a lot better for you in court.

Horse crap. I have serious heart problems simply pissing me off can induce a fatal heart attack which has , in the past, been ruled as murder.
Any physical attack has the potential to be fatal and therefore justifies a lethal force response.
If you are not physically threatened then YOU are the one in the wrong for escalating the situation by resorting to any physical response, including flashing a light in the other persons eyes.

To look at it another way , this is cross posted from the "Less lethal" thread :

The person who replies to physical danger with POTENTIALLY, (no magic bullets) lethal force, in other words a gun, is aiming to end the threat as rapidly as possible.
The person who resorts to "less than Lethal means" simply seeks to inflicted extended pain and suffering on an individual as punishment for making poor life choices. It indicates a very disturbed and poorly adjusted personality.
Pepper spray ? You want to employ "chemical weaponry ?
Isn't that why they hung Saddam ?
Reply

[Majer]

Pepper Spray= oleo resin capsicum
oleo = margarin,greasy
Resin = sticky,gooey
capsicum = the heart of pepper makes the heat,Made by nature,all natural
 So it is not a chemical weapon
Effects=Swells mucus membrane,uncontrollable gagging/coughing,Gasping for breath,Intense burning,eyes slam shut,Inability to catch breath