Author Topic: Allies ? yeah, Right.  (Read 4559 times)

tombogan03884

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Allies ? yeah, Right.
« on: July 08, 2011, 12:18:25 PM »
http://beta.news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-pakistanis-tip-off-militants-again-185727922.html

AP sources: Pakistanis tip off militants again
APBy KIMBERLY DOZIER - AP Intelligence Writer | AP – Sun, Jun 19, 2011

  

WASHINGTON (AP) — In another blow to Washington's relationship with Pakistan, U.S. officials say Pakistan failed another test to prove it could be trusted to go after American enemies on its soil by intentionally or inadvertently tipping off militants at two more bomb-building factories in its tribal areas, giving the suspected terrorists time to flee.

The two sites' locations in the tribal areas had been shared with the Pakistani government this past week, the officials said Saturday. The Americans monitored the area with satellite and unmanned drones to see what would happen.

In each case, within a day or so after sharing the information, they watched the militants depart, taking any weapons or bomb-making materials with them, just as militants had done the first two times. Only then, did they watch the Pakistani military visit each site, when the terror suspects and their wares were long gone, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence.

The Americans suspect that either lower-level Pakistani officials are directly tipping the militants off to the imminent raids, or the tips are coming through the local tribal elders that Pakistan insists on informing of the raids. U.S. officials have pushed for Pakistan to keep the location of such targets secret prior to the operations, but the Pakistanis say their troops cannot enter the lawless regions without giving the locals notice.

The latest incidents bring to a total of four bomb-making sites that the U.S. has shared with Pakistan only to have the terrorist suspects flee before the Pakistani military arrive. Both sides are attempting to mend relations and rebuild trust after the U.S. raid on May 2 that killed Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, a Pakistani army town only 35 miles from the capital Islamabad.

The Pakistanis believe the Americans violated their sovereignty by keeping them in the dark about the raid. American officials believe bin Laden's location proves that some elements of the Pakistani army or Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, helped hide the al-Qaida mastermind.

"They are playing this very dangerous game ... by having elements of the ISI sympathetic to the Taliban and al-Qaida," said House Intelligence committee chairman Mike Rogers, R-Mich., speaking on CBS' "Face the Nation."

Rogers said Pakistan's failure to apprehend the militants running the bomb-making factories "sends the wrong message" at a time Congress is considering reducing some $1.5 billion in annual aid to Pakistan in retaliation after the recent series of such disagreements.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., agreed with the notion of benchmarks. "After all, the United States is investing billions and billions of dollars in Pakistan," McCain said on "This Week" on ABC. "Taxpayers have a right to have a return on that."

In response, Pakistan army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas neither confirmed nor denied the new report that militants were tipped off, but he criticized U.S. officials for making such allegations anonymously.

"Why are these faceless U.S. officials speaking through the media?" Abbas said. "Why don't they come out in the open so that we can respond to them with clarity?"

Abbas said that these "so-called officials" should remember that roadside bombs manufactured by the militants have killed and wounded many Pakistani soldiers.

"Does it make sense to allow this 'killer machine' to continue targeting our troops who are deployed all over the place?" he said.

Last week, Pakistan's army disputed earlier reports that its security forces had tipped off insurgents at bomb-making, calling the assertions of collusion with militants "totally false and malicious."

Pakistani army officials claimed Friday they had successfully raided two more sites, after finding nothing at the first two, but a Pakistani official reached Friday offered no details of what they found.

The official admitted that in each raid, however, the Pakistani security services notified the local elders who hold sway in the tribal regions. Speaking anonymously to discuss intelligence matters, the official said they would investigate U.S. charges that the militants had been tipped off.

Two U.S. officials said they were asking the Pakistanis to withhold such sensitive information from the elders, and even their lower ranks, to carry out their raids in secret, to prove they could be trusted to go after U.S. enemies.

At least two of the sites were run by the Haqqani network, which is part of the Taliban, closely allied with al-Qaida, and blamed for some of the deadliest attacks against U.S. troops and civilians in neighboring Afghanistan. Pakistan has long resisted attacking the Haqqani network, saying the group has never attacked the state of Pakistan.

The intelligence sharing was intended as a precursor to building a new joint intelligence team of CIA officers together with Pakistani intelligence agents. But U.S. officials say Pakistan has failed to quickly approve the visas needed, despite agreeing to form the team in May.

U.S. officials have also accused Pakistan of holding up to five Pakistani nationals accused of helping the CIA spy on the Abbottabad compound in advance of the bin Laden raid.

Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S., Husain Haqqani, confirmed Sunday that Pakistan had rounded up more than 30 people as part of the investigation. He said they were being questioned for information, not punished, but did not say what would happen to them if charged and found guilty of spying.

Speaking on ABC, Haqqani said if any among them were informants who worked for the CIA, "we will deal with them as we would deal with an offending intelligence service and we will resolve this to the satisfaction of our friends, as well as to our own laws."

The Pakistani government, according to the official reached earlier, views any citizen who worked with the U.S. to spy on the compound as having betrayed his or her country by failing to tip off the government that someone the Americans wanted was hiding there. The government's position, the official said, is that such a tip could have saved the Pakistani government the embarrassment of being surprised by the bin Laden raid.

fightingquaker13

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2011, 12:47:15 PM »
Here's a clue to those who are in any doubt here. It is not a matter of "rogue elements" tipping off the terrorists while Pakistan helps us fight the Anti-American Islamacist enemy, Pakistan IS the freaking Anti-American Islamacist enemy. Look, they have created and nurtured these guys for decades. First they aimed them at India, then at the Sovs, and now they are aiming them at us. And we are shocked and surprised by this why? Personally, I think we should go hat in hand to India, offer a sincere apology for backing the wrong horse during the Cold War and acknowledge that they recognized that the Chinese and the Pakistanis were the real enemy before we did.  Give them a mea culpa (which BO is good at, and it is deserved in this case :P) and officially switch sides. "What Pakistani border" and what "tribal areas" (the name alone tells you all you need to know)? It all looks like Southern Afghanistan or Northern India to me. ;D If they don't like it, they can clean up their own mess.
FQ13

tombogan03884

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2011, 12:58:59 PM »
At one time it all WAS "Southern Afghanistan or Northern India ", the nation of Pakistan is nothing but lines on a map of  British India.
As it stands FQ is not wrong on this one.

Solus

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 01:47:40 PM »
DAMN!  Looks like we are gonna need a lot more "Reaching Out" to them.  Hillary's work is never done
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

Pecos Bill

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 04:47:14 PM »
At one time it all WAS "Southern Afghanistan or Northern India ", the nation of Pakistan is nothing but lines on a map of  British India.
As it stands FQ is not wrong on this one.

Well gang it's time to prepare for the end of life as we know it. It appears that the earth is going to be destroyed within a very short time. Grab your towels! Tombogan agreed with FQ! We are lost as a species!

Pecos, who almost had to call 911.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

Sponsor

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #5 on: Today at 04:38:50 PM »

Badgersmilk

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 04:57:51 PM »
Could we get away with declaring Pakistan a site of our "Nuclear Arms Reduction" efforts?

Reduction by detonation.

Maybe we fly an old B-52 heavily loaded over them and have an...  "Accident".  :o :-X

tombogan03884

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 05:42:10 PM »
Well gang it's time to prepare for the end of life as we know it. It appears that the earth is going to be destroyed within a very short time. Grab your towels! Tombogan agreed with FQ! We are lost as a species!

Pecos, who almost had to call 911.


Relax, I did not say" I agree with him". even a stopped clock is right twice a day. (I did buy a lottery ticket though  ;D  )

Could we get away with declaring Pakistan a site of our "Nuclear Arms Reduction" efforts?

Reduction by detonation.

Maybe we fly an old B-52 heavily loaded over them and have an...  "Accident".  :o :-X

Why not, we did it to Spain back in the 60's.

twyacht

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 06:35:58 PM »
And Auntie Sec. State Hillary made sure we continue giving them money?

I've heard politics makes strange bedfellows,.....but it's just bribery and payoffs at this point....

Maybe we need a stronger negotiator like Allen West?

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

fightingquaker13

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 07:27:02 PM »
Maybe we need a stronger negotiator like Allen West?


Or Maybe William Shatner? Who can argue with the Falcon of Truth? ;D
FQ13





Pathfinder

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Re: Allies ? yeah, Right.
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 07:32:01 PM »
Maybe we need a stronger negotiator like Allen West?

Or John Bolton? ? ? ?
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do this to others and I require the same from them"

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