Author Topic: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core  (Read 3355 times)

tombogan03884

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Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« on: July 12, 2011, 02:11:13 PM »
Like Thatcher said, eventually you run out of other peoples money.

BRUSSELS (AP) — The debt crisis shook Europe's core on Tuesday as market fears grew over the stability of Spain and Italy, forcing a rethink of the currency union's strategy to restore trust in its future.

Markets took a nosedive on worries that the eurozone's third and fourth biggest economies — both too expensive to save with Europe's rescue funds — may become the crisis' next victims.

On the one hand, investors are concerned by the EU's determination to get banks to share the burden of bailouts, even at the cost of triggering a Greek default. On the other, they see in EU disagreements over giving Greece more aid the ominous signs of a drop in commitment to the currency union.

The mix of uncertainty proved toxic for markets. The sell-off extended to Italy, one of Europe's stable core economies, which despite its high debt had so far escaped the turmoil that has crippled the eurozone for a year and a half.

The contagion "could mark the beginning of the end for the single currency union in its current form," Jonathan Loynes, economist at Capital Economics.

As so often before, the eurozone finance ministers were pushed into action only when the markets gave them no choice.

Italy's government sped up approval of its austerity plan and the EU opened the door for a complete overhaul of the region's bailout fund, which has so far focused on handing out rescue loans to countries on the brink of collapse in return for high interest rates and painful austerity measures.

The pledges calmed market nerves — for the day, at least. The euro bounced back above $1.40 from as low as $1.3885 in the morning and Milan's stock index swung to a 1.2 percent gain after being down as much as 4.4 percent.

"We said we are ready to test, whether, as part of the private sector involvement, an expansion of the toolkit is necessary and appropriate — such as prolonging (loan) maturities and lowering interest rates," said German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble. "Everything can help to improve debt sustainability and defend the euro as a whole."

Schaeuble did not exclude new powers for the eurozone's rescue funds, such as buying up the bonds of troubled countries on the open market, which could lower the debt weight and help stem market jitters, especially for a country like Greece, which few economists believe can stand on its own feet again without substantial additional support.

Until very recently, Germany, the eurozone's largest economy and the biggest contributor to the region's bailout fund, had firmly ruled out such expanded powers.

Schaeuble indicated that the heightened market panic may have led to a change in opinion. "We never before had such an intensive and honest debate over the real issues," he told journalists at the end of a two-day meeting with his counterparts in Brussels.

But while the promises of more support stabilized European markets by the close of the day on Tuesday, sentiment remains fragile as the eurozone's top officials — once again — remained thin on details and appeared to disagree among themselves.

Calm will return to markets only if "all the countries of the eurozone assume their responsibility, in particular the most powerful countries," Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero told reporters in Madrid.

The comment seemed to be a direct rebuke to German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose reluctance to anger taxpayers at home has blocked previous efforts to get ahead of the debt crisis.

Because of the heightened tensions, this week could become crucial to the eurozone's ability to survive the crisis. EU President Herman Van Rompuy said there may be a special summit of EU leaders in Brussels Friday, the same day as the results of long anticipated bank stress test will be revealed.

While the finance ministers struggled in Brussels, Italy worked to restore confidence in its ability to tackle its debt pile, some 120 percent of economic output and one of the biggest in the eurozone.

Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi said the government will bring forward the timetable it has for a raft of austerity measures, which are now meant to pass through parliament by Sunday, instead of waiting until August.

Berlusconi said in a statement that the turmoil in Italian financial markets in recent days has prompted the government to accelerate and strengthen the measures, so that the country can have a balanced budget by 2014.

"It is necessary to eliminate every doubt on the efficiency and credibility of the austerity measures," Berlusconi said in his first public comments since speculators started pushing up the interest rates Italy pays on its debt.

Berlusconi, who has been weakened in recent local elections and referendums on his policies as well as a sex scandal, expressed confidence that the government and opposition would work together "to defend the country."

The comments helped the Italian 10-year yield drop back down to 5.55 percent from above 6.0 percent earlier, while the Milan stock index turned positive to trade 1.2 percent higher — its first rise in days.

http://news.yahoo.com/debt-crisis-spreads-shake-europes-core-162628604.html

Rastus

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 08:33:54 PM »
OH....it's not near over.

There is Italy and Ireland to follow.  Greece yet to fall...they are whistling through the graveyard hoping something is going to save their behinds...but...they did not count on the US be run by a Marxist tool bent on destroying the USA.

I read a thoughtful article that essentially said China was going to raise prices out of necessity to retain their standard of living and that would signal the end.  Once the price goes up as the dollar recedes towards the value of toilet paper it's game over.  Just a scenario...we'll see how it comes out.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)
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tombogan03884

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 10:13:48 PM »
I screwed up good on this one  ;D
The title of the thread is actually the link I meant to use as the first line of the post.
 Color me embarrassed.
Any way, one of the options mentioned in the article is the possibility of letting little Greece default in order to devote funds to saving bigger fish like Italy and Spain.
It's just a shell game, they are all screwed because with the possible exception of Switzerland none of them have a currency that is actually worth anything.
Even the tiny banking countries such as  Liechtenstein, Luxembourg,The Cayman's,  etc are screwed. Even if their currency does remain solvent the world wide turmoil will mean no will be producing the things they need to import.
So even solvent counties will collapse.

Badgersmilk

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 10:51:57 PM »
Building the excuse needed to go to a single world economy.  Nothing more.

As it is our country's falling apart with neglect from politicians thieving every penny we give them for their own personal gain.  Crooked politicians aren't going anywhere though, they protect each other to well.  And we're to damn lazy to do more than complain about it a little, so as long as they maintain SOME kind of balance on how badly they rape and pillage us...  We moan and groan a little about our sore holes, roll over and take even more, and the world goes on.

I actually look forward to our going to a single world economy.   :)  It's change.  And I've got a good idea of what kind of change it'll be.  Soooo, WELCOME!  My hole has about had enough.

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 11:18:57 AM »
Calm will return to markets only if "all the countries of the eurozone assume their responsibility, in particular the most powerful countries," Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero told reporters in Madrid.

I don't recall ever seeing entitlement being practiced on a truly national level before. So Germany is obligated to bail Spain's ass out? When did that happen?

Rastus - you forgot Portugal as well, but then you can list just about all of the countries in Europe other than Germany, and maybe the UK for now.

Badger - you win a cookie! Right on the money, it's about a single world-wide currency to "fix" the worlds' economic ills.
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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:40:24 PM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 02:52:45 PM »
Building the excuse needed to go to a single world economy.  Nothing more.

As it is our country's falling apart with neglect from politicians thieving every penny we give them for their own personal gain.  Crooked politicians aren't going anywhere though, they protect each other to well.  And we're to damn lazy to do more than complain about it a little, so as long as they maintain SOME kind of balance on how badly they rape and pillage us...  We moan and groan a little about our sore holes, roll over and take even more, and the world goes on.

I actually look forward to our going to a single world economy.   :)  It's change.  And I've got a good idea of what kind of change it'll be.  Soooo, WELCOME!  My hole has about had enough.

Just the opposite.
When the European Common Market   was first changing over to the EU, there was a lot of hype about how it would build an economic power that would put the US to shame.
20 years ago my reply (which hasn't changed ) was "How would you like to share a currency with Italy or Greece ?"
The idea of the European Union, which has been around since the late 1800's was to achieve a  Utopian  single, multi national, economy, first in Western Europe then spreading outward to include the entire world.
Basiclly "colonialism v2.0".
It's falling apart just like that other bright idea, the League of Nations. The advanced nations like Germany have enough on their hands keeping their own drones happy with out getting saddled with responsibility for cesspools like Greece, Italy and a historically poverty stricken Portugal.
I would sooner predict an eventual return of Marks, Francs and Pounds before a single world currency. My comment now is "How would you like to share a currency with Zimbabwe, Somalia, or Bangladesh ?" 

Badgersmilk

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 05:07:00 PM »
Greece, Italy, Portugal, Zimbabwa, Somalia, Bangladesh...  I've had good luck on Ebay.  :)  And would happily bid on any one of these!  

As Italy's new owner.  I see myself doing very well allowing the worlds drug companies to say.  "We don't test on animals".  


The island of Dr. Moreau Badger ;D


Bwwahahahahaha!!!   :D


twyacht

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 07:10:13 PM »
I think Chancellor Merkel is doing the right thing, and has more balls than 95% of Europe.....

Germany is like Texas......
Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

tombogan03884

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 04:47:46 AM »
I think Chancellor Merkel is doing the right thing, and has more balls than 95% of Europe.....

Germany is like Texas......

No, Texas usually WINS it's wars.

Badgersmilk

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Re: Debt crisis spreads to shake Europe's core
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 04:58:43 AM »
No, Texas usually WINS it's wars.

F you.  ;)  Took the WHOLE WOLD TOGETHER to stop us...  Don't you say anything about Italy helping.  ::)

There's always next time...  ;)

 

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