Norway - Goes the hell in a shit basket, terrorist attack. (87 dead so far)

[sledgemeister]

CCW doesn't even enter into it. If some of them had jumped this guy the death toll would not have been so high.
Guns are distance weapons, that's why they have special classes on close in pistol shooting. If you run, or as at Virginia Tech, hide under a desk, you will be shot, if you fight back you might be shot.
This isn't the Borg we are talking about, resistance is never futile.

If people did that at Port Arthur then maybe all 35 may not have been killed, in Virginia tech all those people may not have been killed, if in Norway they may not have all been killed. The only thing this proves is it rarely happens. Flight 93 (no disrespect intended) had time to plan and organise a stratey or a counter offensive, these situations dont give people that, they happen out of no where, peoples first instinct does not say jump in front of a man who is shooting at you. While we might all want to believe that we are capable of such heroic abilities, 99.9% of people arent, and lets not forget most of these victims where kids.
At least with CCW you at least have the chance to flee and protect yourself and/or your loved ones.

[tombogan03884]

If people did that at Port Arthur then maybe all 35 may not have been killed, in Virginia tech all those people may not have been killed, if in Norway they may not have all been killed. The only thing this proves is it rarely happens. Flight 93 (no disrespect intended) had time to plan and organise a stratey or a counter offensive, these situations dont give people that, they happen out of no where, peoples first instinct does not say jump in front of a man who is shooting at you. While we might all want to believe that we are capable of such heroic abilities, 99.9% of people arent, and lets not forget most of these victims where kids.
At least with CCW you at least have the chance to flee and protect yourself and/or your loved ones.

Such situations trigger an instinct to "fight or flight", it is liberal "touchy feely" training that causes most to choose flight. There have been multiple cases, such as in Pearl Mississippi where resistance prevented injuries.
To show that this is a relatively new phenomenon, look at Coffeeville Ks, or Northfield Minn. the James and Dalton gangs were both destroyed because the citizens had not been indoctrinated in the concept that even defensive violence is bad.

[PegLeg45]

CCW doesn't even enter into it. If some of them had jumped this guy the death toll would not have been so high.
Guns are distance weapons, that's why they have special classes on close in pistol shooting. If you run, or as at Virginia Tech, hide under a desk, you will be shot, if you fight back you might be shot.
This isn't the Borg we are talking about, resistance is never futile.

+1 on that, Tom.

CCW may have helped, but I agree it is not, IMHO, a central issue. Had just a few brave souls jumped the guy, the carnage could have most likely been significantly lessened.

It's all in the mind-set. I guess I look at things differently than a lot of folks around me because I can not run or take rapid evasive action (even kneeling isn't possible).........I have few choices but to fight.......so I made up my mind that if the time comes, I will fight as hard as physically possible.....using any means at hand. I guess it just bothers me to see so many people, as in this case, dominated by a single lunatic.

Sad all the way around....for the loss of life, the reason (or lack there of) for it, and the fact that much of it could have been prevented.

My prayers go out for them.

[jnevis]

Have a plan and follow through.

[tombogan03884]

Toll now up to 98.
Back when "Work place violence" was making headlines I looked around myself, machine shops contain lots of cover, and anything can be used as a weapon. Heck, Cain killed Abel with a rock.
I might die, but it sure as hell will not be cowering under a desk.

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

Toll now up to 98.
Back when "Work place violence" was making headlines I looked around myself, machine shops contain lots of cover, and anything can be used as a weapon. Heck, Cain killed Abel with a rock.
I might die, but it sure as hell will not be cowering under a desk.

I'm in agreement here.  Everywhere I've worked, I figure a worst case scenario and make decisions based on that situation.

[twyacht]

Anyone know the weapon used?

Was it one of those "high capacity" magazines....Fox News reported the shooting lasted over an hour.....

That is an eternity....and by the death toll, and injured, a lot of reloading with a handgun...

I thought Gun Control was working in Europe.

[Ichiban]

And it only took 90 minutes for the police to show up.

OSLO, Norway – Police arrived at an island massacre about an hour and a half after a gunman first opened fire, slowed because they didn't have quick access to a helicopter and then couldn't find a boat to make their way to the scene just several hundred yards (meters) offshore. The assailant surrendered when police finally reached him, but 82 people died before that.

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110723/ap_on_re_eu/eu_norway_explosion

No need for the populace to be armed, the police will protect you.   

[tombogan03884]

One article I saw a witness said several people were shot with a pistol, then again with a shotgun.

[Pathfinder]

And it only took 90 minutes for the police to show up.

OSLO, Norway – Police arrived at an island massacre about an hour and a half after a gunman first opened fire, slowed because they didn't have quick access to a helicopter and then couldn't find a boat to make their way to the scene just several hundred yards (meters) offshore. The assailant surrendered when police finally reached him, but 82 people died before that.

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110723/ap_on_re_eu/eu_norway_explosion

No need for the populace to be armed, the police will protect you.   

Once again, when seconds count . . . .