"Energy Efficient" Nonsense !

[billt]

I'm through with all of these so called "Energy Efficient" appliances, light bulbs, and everything else. 2 years ago I went through our entire house and replaced every incandescent bulb I could find with CFL's. Including all of my outside lighting around my pool. I think I replaced somewhere in the neighborhood of 43 light bulbs total. I didn't notice a dime in savings. This in spite of the fact they claim these new CFL's require only 18% of the energy it takes to power a similar incandescent bulb.

Next we replaced all of our appliances over the last year and a half. Again we went with premium, "energy efficient" appliances. New water heater, new electric stove, new fridge and dishwasher, and we went from a builder grade 4,000 watt electric clothes dryer, to a top of the line gas model. Again, I have yet to see any savings. If there is I sure as hell can't detect it.

The final straw came this last spring when we replaced our original, 13 year old A/C system. We went with a SEER 16 premium Rheem unit that was........you guessed it, "Energy Efficient". My electric bill isn't any less now, than it was before we bought all of this crap. My intention was with retirement coming in another 3 years or so, to get my monthly utilities down as low as possible to minimize my monthly expenditures. Nothing has changed. I was even willing to add more insulation, but the installer said I didn't need it. He told me my attic was one of the better insulated ones he's been in. Moral of story, they can ram all of this so called "Energy Efficient" nonsense. I think most all of it is nothing more than a big sales ploy. My appliances were getting old, and needed replacing. But if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have spent premium dollars to purchase anything "Energy Efficient". If there in fact is any savings, the stuff will crap out long before it pays for itself.   Bill T.

[tombogan03884]

You have saved a lot and don't even realize it.. Remember those "Rising energy costs " people have been bitching about ?
My electric bill went up 50% over the last 3 or 4 years.

[alfsauve]

First, I agree with you, Billt.   Too much hype about all this energy efficiency. 

However, rather than looking at you bill for the dollars, have you looked at the actual kiloWatts-hours, consumed each month.  As Tom is saying it could because of rising rates making it seem like there's no savings.

 RELATED:   I called to task the local park service and newspaper about hyping a solar panel project.   The local park got a $750K grant to go solar and were so proud that it will save them $25,000 a year.    I pointed out that's fine but at a 4% return on money their $750K could be earning $30K per year, so while the park service was saving cash flow, we the taxpayers were actually loosing $5K (or more) a year.   Another example of inefficiency of government as well as how solar isn't all that it's hyped up to be.

[Rastus]

Yep, on a few percent difference at best.  The A/C unit you bought is priced to payout the extra amount of money it cost you in 5 to 10 years.  So, if you paid and extra..say $2,500 for it you may expect to get $250 to $500 per year in savings which works out to $20 to $40 a month in savings if it was that much better than what you had previously.

Solar energy is too expensive and too expensive to payout before the cells lose their ability to produce significant energy.  It's a fools game...Al is right about solar costing more than it saves.  Solar may be good where there is no power available.

However, lately I have purchased a few of the newer LED lights.  Quite expensive, but if they last 40 to 50 thousand hours they will be cheaper than incadescents in cost and use far less energy than even CFL's.  As you've found, your light bill is not your primary electrical cost!!!

PS  I'll never buy another Rheem...been there and learned my lesson.

[crusader rabbit]

CFLs are bogus in almost every way.  They do not last as long as promised.  You can't even throw them in the trash when they fail.  And, if you break one, the instructions call for you to get kids and pets out of the house.

On the other hand, replacing my ancient A/C last Fall has saved me nearly 40% in electricity on a comparitive month-to-month basis--and I am in a warm state--Florida--where it's on nearly all the time.

[Sponsor]

[Paraguy]

I am in the energy industry and spend a lot of time looking at efficiency projects for clients.  With CFLs you will see savings if they are on half the time every day, if not you will see very little savings.  A Killowatt/hour (kWh) is about $.15 depedning on where you live.  If you switch from a 60 watt bulb to a 13 watt CFL you will save 47 watts/hour.  If you do the math you will save about $.15 every 20 hours you would have had that light on.  If you have that light on about 60 hours a month (2 hours a night for a month) you will see upwards of $.45/month savings from that switch - not enough to move the needle.  The good news is that you won't be changing bulbs for a long time.

As for the applicances, you should be saving on those and agree that the likely culprit is higher energy prices as was previously noted.  Also, human nature is that you will set the temperature lower in the summer since you have a more efficient unit.  Hope that helps a little.  If not, think of all the spotted owls, polar bears and hippies oyu are saving.

[billt]

CFLs are bogus in almost every way.  They do not last as long as promised.  You can't even throw them in the trash when they fail.  And, if you break one, the instructions call for you to get kids and pets out of the house.

On the other hand, replacing my ancient A/C last Fall has saved me nearly 40% in electricity on a comparitive month-to-month basis--and I am in a warm state--Florida--where it's on nearly all the time.

It could be as Tom mentioned. Electric rates have gone up, but I haven't seen any increase on my bill, so perhaps there is something there. As far as the CFL's. I've had a few go bad, maybe 3 or 4. I have had a couple that delay. You turn on the switch, and it takes about a second or two before they come on. I agree that you must leave them on for long periods to realize any savings. Fluorescents, CFL or otherwise, don't do well if they're turned on and off a lot.

As far as all of the "danger" with them, I haven't paid any attention. I haven't broken one, but I toss them like any other bulb. There is very little Mercury in them.   Bill T.

[fightingquaker13]

Bill
Here's a thought. FPL, our local energy company is a huge leader in trying to encourage increased efficiency. Hell, they gave me a rebate of almost a grand when I bought my new A/C., and I got a rebate on my new fridge and water heater as well. The reason for this largess is that when they have to buy power over the grid from companies like Enron (or more accurately, whoever their successor is) they get hosed, and the utility commission won't let them pass on all the cost, so it behooves them to keep usage at a manageable, and thus profitable, level. I doubt they are shelling out all this money to subsidize efficient appliances if they don't notice a difference. They are a for profit company, and as much as I appreciate the $750 rebate on my new Trane, I don't think they did it out of kindness.  
One other thing to look at is your kilowatt hours. FPL does a free "energy audit" if you ask them. They'll look at your bills for the last few years, average out daily power usage and examine your appliances, windows, insulation etc.. I mean even our monthly bill compares the hours you used this month to those you used last year. My bill has not gone down much in price, but it has in hours. If your power company has the energy audit option, I'd do it. Its free and you learn useful stuff.
FQ13

[billt]

Another thing is a lot of these newer appliances over advertise their capabilities. For example we bought one of those top of the line, super high capacity washers. They advertise you can do 17 pairs of jeans in one load. There is no way you could and expect to get them clean. About the only advantage I see with it is it has a 1,200 RPM spin cycle. It literally spins the clothes to an almost dry condition. Because of that you don't have to run the dryer as long. It also cuts down on shrinkage. But it really doesn't hold all that more.   Bill T.

[Pathfinder]

Billt, our local utility company shows a usage chart for the prior 12-15 months or so on every bill, so definitely ask them if yours does not to give you a breakdown of your usage. You may have "saved" and not realized it. Remember, tho, the "public" utilities are for-profit corporations, so as you and your neighbors cut usage, they have to raise rates to maintain or improve their revenue/profit streams.

I will also remind everyone of the research report the Dumbocrats commissioned about a decade ago that predicted that there was something on the order of $15-25 Billion in new revenue every year by shilling the "green" mantra pushing "energy efficiency". You paid more, got less than what you expected and were led to believe, and somewhere someone is enjoying the added cash flow.