Author Topic: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?  (Read 8490 times)

sledgemeister

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
  • Democrat Sheeples
    • Australian Hunting Net
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2011, 11:35:11 PM »
Least some one gets it in Brittain


I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. - Solomon Short

tombogan03884

  • Guest
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2011, 12:15:37 AM »
Like I posted before, he is on the right track, but he blows it by failing to take his reasoning to the next logical step.
The police can not protect the individual.
Gandhi was wrong. The worst thing the British did was not taking away the citizens guns.
The worst thing Britain did was, through its court precedents, effectively removing the citizens right to defend themselves at all.

tombogan03884

  • Guest
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2011, 10:30:19 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/britains-tough-justice-alarm-campaigners-161908147.html

LONDON (Reuters) - Tough prison sentences such as four years for trying to organize a riot via Facebook have triggered alarm in Britain that the government's crackdown over last week's unrest may be too harsh.

Britain's Conservative Party, which leads a coalition government, has promised tough action following four nights of violence in London and other cities to mend what it has described as Britain's broken society.

Civil liberties groups, legal experts and some politicians however say that disproportionate sentencing could only fuel a sense of injustice.

"There's no doubt that in certain circumstances a firm sentence is required," said John Cooper, a senior crime and civil liberties barrister.

"What concerns me is that the whole range of the sentencing process has been unduly and disproportionately cranked up ... influenced implicitly or explicitly by public opinion."

Many people in Britain are outraged over last week's rioting and looting that caused widespread damage and was linked to the deaths of at least four people.

Some agree with harsh sentencing, but worry they have been imposed under political pressure.

"You should judge every individual case on its merits and every person on the basis of what they've actually done, rather than this creep toward .... judicial activism, where politicians put undue influence on the judiciary," said Daniel Hamilton, director of Big Brother Watch, which campaigns for civil liberties.

DISPROPORTIONATE PUNISHMENTS

In London, more than 1,000 people have been charged with crimes connected to the riots, which also spread to the cities of Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham and Bristol.

On Wednesday, media reported that a young man had been given a four-year jail term for setting up a page on social networking site Facebook calling on people to riot in his home town.

Another young man received the same sentence elsewhere in England for a similar offence.

No riots broke out in the areas the men came from, and one media report said one of the young men had woken with a hangover the next day, deleted the web page and apologized.

"It's very tempting for everybody to get carried away with the rhetoric and saying we should round up these monsters and deal with them draconically. What you're going to get if you start sentencing disproportionately is all sorts of anomalies," said Roger Smith, director of law reform group Justice.

He compared the young men's four-year prison term to a likely two years for breaking someone's leg in an assault.

Media outlets reported than one man had been jailed for six months for stealing bottled water worth 3.5 pounds ($5.78) from a supermarket looted during the riots.

Britain's Criminal Bar Association said that while it would be wrong to punish all crimes harshly because they were committed during the riots, judges and magistrates should be allowed to give higher sentences for a crime depending on the context in which it was committed.

"Judges are entitled to conclude that these crimes have a number of aggravating features, born from the circumstances of the case, which mean that the sentences can and should be higher," the body's Vice Chairman Max Hill said in a statement.

But others argue that harsh sentencing for less serious crimes devalues punishments for more serious offences.

The Conservatives have defended the harsh sentencing, saying the sentences should act as a deterrent to others.

"What happened on our streets was absolutely appalling behavior and to send a very clear message that it's wrong and it won't be tolerated is what our criminal justice system should be doing," Prime Minister David Cameron said.

But even his coalition partners the Liberal Democrats are distancing themselves from his approach. For less serious crimes, they advocate punishments such as helping to repair riot damage and being forced to meet victims of the disorder.

"Short prison sentences for relatively petty offences go against the Ministry of Justice's own evidence that shows that short prison sentences are very ineffective at reducing reoffending," said Tom Brake, co-chair of the party's committee on home affairs, justice and equalities.

Other critics say also say the zero tolerance approach could be self defeating, given that Britain's prisons are already overflowing at a time of strained public finances.

"We have doubled our prison population since the mid-1990s and seen tougher and tougher measures introduced each year, with an abundance of criminal justice legislation. Yet despite all this, the outcome of being 'tough on crime' was some of the worst street disturbances seen in decades," said Andrew Neilson of the Howard League of Penal Reform.

(Additional reporting by Stephen Addison; Editing by Maria Golovnina)

fightingquaker13

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11894
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2011, 04:47:31 AM »
I don't know about the facebook pages if no rioting occured. That would be protected speech here. But giving a guy six months for stealing a water bottle? Good! He wasn't sentenced for the water, it was because he was looting during a riot. In a sane country he'd consider himself lucky he wasn't shot. Sentenced to talk to the victims? ::) What, is this kindergarten?

 Here's an idea. Bring back corporal punishment. I'm actually serious here. It saves money, hurts like hell, is publicly humiliating, but doesn't disrupt or endanger a convicts life like a jail term. Give them 25 lashes, some community  service cleaning up the mess, and a one year suspended sentence and call it a day. They so much as J walk again and its a year minimum.
FQ13

Ichiban

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1847
  • DRTV Ranger
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2011, 10:54:36 AM »
In a sane country he'd consider himself lucky he wasn't shot. Sentenced to talk to the victims? ::) What, is this kindergarten?
FQ13

Where have you been?  It's called "Restorative Justice."  I't all the rage with the touchy-feely crowd.  It's all about feelings, don't you know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorative_justice


Sponsor

  • Guest
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #45 on: Today at 11:27:27 PM »

fightingquaker13

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11894
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2011, 11:02:05 AM »
Where have you been?  It's called "Restorative Justice."  I't all the rage with the touchy-feely crowd.  It's all about feelings, don't you know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorative_justice


What if the victims don't want to talk to them? What if they want to kick their asses? Say what you want to about Iran, but they somtimes get it right. Oddly enough, their rate of recidivism is rather low. ;)
FQ13



Court orders blinding

An Iranian man who was ordered to be blinded for carrying out an acid attack on a woman has been pardoned by his victim, state television has said.

Ameneh Bahrami had demanded qisas, a rarely used retributive justice under Sharia law, but the report said she had forgone that right at the last minute.

A court had backed Ms Bahrami's demand in 2008 that Majid Movahedi be blinded.

He attacked Ms Bahrami in 2004 after she had refused his offer of marriage, leaving her severely disfigured.

Rights group Amnesty International had lobbied against the sentence, calling it "cruel and inhuman punishment amounting to torture".

Mother's praise
 
The state television website reported: "With the request of Ameneh Bahrami, the acid attack victim, Majid (Movahedi) who was sentenced for 'qisas' was pardoned at the last minute."

Continue reading the main story

Start Quote
I had no intention of taking his eyes from him”
End Quote
Ameneh Bahrami
 
The Isna news agency quoted Tehran prosecutor Abbas Jafari Dolatabadi as saying: "Today in hospital the blinding of Majid Movahedi was to have been carried out in the presence of an eye specialist and judiciary representative, when Ameneh pardoned him."

Isna quoted Ms Bahrami as saying: "I struggled for seven years with this verdict to prove to people that the person who hurls acid should be punished through 'qisas', but today I pardoned him because it was my right.

"I did it for my country, since all other countries were looking to see what we would do."

Ms Bahrami was quoted on Iranian TV as saying: "I never wanted to have revenge on him. I just wanted the sentence to be issued for retribution. But I would not have carried it out. I had no intention of taking his eyes from him."

Mr Dolatabadi told Isna that Ms Bahrami had demanded "blood money", or compensation, for her injuries.

He praised her "courageous act" of pardon, adding: "The judiciary was serious about implementing the verdict."

Ms Bahrami said she had never received any money from the man's family, saying she was seeking only compensation for medical fees, which she put at 150,000 euros ($216,000: £131,000).

She said: "He wont be freed. He has a sentence, which he has to serve for 10-12 years of which he has done seven. Unless the full compensation is paid, he won't be freed."

Isna quoted Ms Bahrami's mother as saying: "I am proud of my daughter... Ameneh had the strength to forgive Majid. This forgiveness will calm Ameneh and our family."

CJS3

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1298
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2011, 10:53:47 PM »
Hate to dig up an old thread, but I thought this article was an interesting follow up. Seems like the Brits have been doing this on a regular basis every 30 or so years;
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/08/civil-disorder-and-looting-hits-britain-0?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/wehavebeenherebeforebritain
Children, pets, and slaves are taken care of. Free Men take care of themselves.

tombogan03884

  • Guest
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2011, 11:24:50 PM »
Good find CJ  ;D

kmitch200

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: What's Up With The Riots In The UK?
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2011, 12:28:56 AM »
LONDON (Reuters) - Tough prison sentences such as four years for trying to organize a riot via Facebook have triggered alarm in Britain that the government's crackdown over last week's unrest may be too harsh.
Many people in Britain are outraged over last week's rioting and looting that caused widespread damage and was linked to the deaths of at least four people.


I would expect a harsh sentence if I organized a riot that caused a buttload of damage and the deaths of at least 4 people.

"There's no doubt that in certain circumstances a firm sentence is required," said John Cooper, a senior crime and civil liberties barrister.

No shit Sherlock. Welcome to reality.
You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles; but at least they drive slowly past schools.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk