Poll

Did the Obama administration set a dangerous precedent by targeting US  citizen Alawi

No the Constitution only applies to people we approve of
1 (5.6%)
Yes,they have already reffered to veterans, gun owners, and conservitives as terrorists, this shows they are willing to start killing us too.
17 (94.4%)

Total Members Voted: 16


Author Topic: Assasinating US Citizens  (Read 12326 times)

tombogan03884

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Assasinating US Citizens
« on: September 30, 2011, 08:03:45 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/killing-americans-uncharted-ground-attack-212335475.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama steered the nation's war machine into uncharted territory Friday when a U.S. drone attacked a convoy in Yemen and killed two American citizens who had become central figures in al-Qaida.

It was believed to be the first instance in which a U.S. citizen was tracked and executed based on secret intelligence and the president's say-so. And it raised major questions about the limitations of presidential power.

Anwar al-Awlaki, the target of the U.S. drone attack, was one of the best-known al-Qaida figures after Osama bin Laden. American intelligence officials had linked him to two nearly catastrophic attacks on U.S.-bound planes, an airliner on Christmas 2009 and cargo planes last year. The second American killed in the drone attack, Samir Kahn, was the editor of Inspire, a slick online magazine aimed at al-Qaida sympathizers in the West.

"Al-Qaida and its affiliates will find no safe haven anywhere in the world," Obama said in announcing al-Awlaki's death. "Working with Yemen and our other allies and partners, we will be determined, we will be deliberate, we will be relentless, we will be resolute in our commitment to destroy terrorist networks that aim to kill Americans."

Republicans and Democrats alike applauded the decision to launch the fatal assault on the convoy in Yemen.

"It's something we had to do," said Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. "The president is showing leadership. The president is showing guts."

"It's legal," said Maryland Rep. C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. "It's legitimate and we're taking out someone who has attempted to attack us on numerous occasions. And he was on that list."

That list is the roster of people the White House has authorized the CIA and Pentagon to kill or capture as terrorists. The evidence against them almost always is classified. Targets never know for sure they are on the list, though some surely wouldn't be surprised.

The list has included dozens of names, from little-known mid-level figures in the wilds of Pakistan to bin Laden, who was killed in his compound in a comfortable Pakistani suburb.

Before al-Awlaki, no American had been on the list.

But the legal process that led to his death was set in motion a decade ago. On Sept. 17, 2001, President George W. Bush signed a presidential order authorizing the CIA to hunt down terrorists worldwide. The authority was rooted in his power as commander in chief, leading a nation at war with al-Qaida.

The order made no distinction between foreigners and U.S. citizens. If they posed a "continuing and imminent threat" to the United States, they were eligible to be killed, former intelligence officials said.

The order was reviewed by top lawyers at the White House, CIA and Justice Department. With the ruins of the World Trade Center still smoking, there was little discussion about whether U.S. citizens should have more protection, the officials recalled, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter. The feeling was that the government needed — and had — broad authority to find and kill terrorists who were trying to strike the U.S.

The CIA first faced the issue in November 2002, when it launched a Predator drone attack in Yemen. An American terror suspect who had fled there, Kamal Derwish, was killed by Hellfire missiles launched on his caravan.

The Bush administration said Derwish wasn't the target. The attack was intended for Yemeni al-Qaida leader Abu Ali al-Harithi. But officials said even then that, if it ever came to it, they had the authority to kill an American.

"I can assure you that no constitutional questions are raised here. There are authorities that the president can give to officials," Condoleezza Rice, Bush's national security adviser, said. "He's well within the balance of accepted practice and the letter of his constitutional authority."

Al-Awlaki had not then emerged as a leading al-Qaida figure. Before the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the New Mexico-born cleric had been a preacher at the northern Virginia mosque attended briefly by two hijackers. He was interviewed but never charged by the FBI.

But at the CIA, the officers in charge of finding targets knew it was only a matter of time before they would set the Predator drone's high-definition sights on an American.

"We knew at some point there would have to be a straight call made on this," one former senior intelligence official said.

It was Obama who ultimately made that call.

After the failed Christmas bombing, the Nigerian suspect told the FBI that he had met with al-Awlaki and said he was instrumental in the plot. Al-Awlaki had also called for attacks on Americans and had attended meetings with senior al-Qaida leaders in Yemen. Al-Awlaki had gone from an inspirational figure to an operational leader, officials said.

In April 2010, the White House added al-Awlaki's name to the kill-or-capture list. Senior administration officials said they reviewed the Bush administration's executive order and discussed the ramifications of putting an American on the list but said it was a short conversation. They concluded that the president had the authority, both under the congressional declaration of war against al-Qaida and international law.

"Anwar al-Awlaki is acting as a regional commander for al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters in August.

What if the U.S. was wrong, Gibbs was asked, what recourse does a citizen have to save himself? The CIA had misidentified and imprisoned the wrong person before. Gibbs sidestepped the question.

The U.S. has been inconsistent in how it describes al-Awlaki. The Treasury Department called him a leader of al-Qaida in Yemen. FBI Director Robert Mueller called him the leader. On Friday, Obama called him "the leader of external operations," the first time he has been described that way.

Al-Awlaki's family rushed to court to try to stop the government from killing him, saying he had to be afforded the constitutional right to due process.

The idea of killing an American citizen provided critics with fodder for all sorts of comparisons showing the peculiarities of national security law and policy. The government could not listen to al-Awlaki's phone calls without a judge's approval, for instance, but could kill him on the president's say-so. The Obama administration opposed imprisoning terrorist suspects without due process but supported killing them without due process.

"If the Constitution means anything, it surely means that the president does not have unreviewable authority to summarily execute any American whom he concludes is an enemy of the state," ACLU lawyer Ben Wizner said Friday.

U.S. District Judge John Bates refused to intervene in al-Awlaki's case.

"This court recognizes the somewhat unsettling nature of its conclusion — that there are circumstances in which the executive's unilateral decision to kill a U.S. citizen overseas is 'constitutionally committed to the political branches' and judicially unreviewable," Bates wrote. "But this case squarely presents such a circumstance."

Like Derwish years ago, Khan, a North Carolina native, was called collateral damage in the drone attack, not the target.

Al-Awlaki may have been the perfect test case for the government. His sermons in English are posted all over the Internet and his name has been associated with several attempted terrorist attacks. In the intelligence community, many regarded him as a bigger threat than bin Laden because of his ability to inspire Westerners and his focus on attacking the U.S.

But in taking this step, the Obama administration raised questions about whom else the president has the authority to kill. In principle, such an attack could probably not happen inside the United States because the CIA is forbidden from operating here and the military is limited in what operations it can carry out domestically. But civil rights groups have questioned whether the government has opened the door to that possibility.

At the White House, spokesman Jay Carney refused to even acknowledge the government's direct role in killing al-Awlaki. He repeatedly ducked questions about the extent of Obama's authority and said only that al-Awlaki had been an operational leader for al-Qaida.

"Is there going to be any evidence presented?" Carney was asked.

"You know, I don't have anything for you on that," he responded.

King, the Republican lawmaker, said it was necessary that the president to have the authority to act against those at war with the U.S. And it was no secret to the public, he said, that al-Awlaki was at war. But he acknowledged that it set a precedent that could make people uncomfortable.

"There could be a situation where nobody knows the evidence, where you're relying on the government to say what its intelligence is," King said. "With al-Awlaki, it was clear-cut. He made it a clear call."


There is supposed to be a double standard, one set of rules for Foriegners, but ALL American citizens are entitled to the protection of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

2HOW

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 08:06:32 PM »
even tho he needed killing, he is an American citizen and you must stick to the law and constitution.
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY

twyacht

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 08:15:44 PM »
even tho he needed killing, he is an American citizen and you must stick to the law and constitution.

I respectfully disagree, he denounced the American Constitution, his Pledge Of Allegiance, his upbringing, his culture, his heritage, his families, his original life, etc,...

He left American soil, to recruit, train, enable, jihadist's to kill Americans, preferably civilians,....ya' know like women and children,...

He used Al-Jazeera, and other terrorist propaganda mechanisms to promote this.,...

He(they) got what he(they) deserved....

At some point, they go too far....and deserve to meet Allah. They didn't believe in this Countries beliefs,... we are the Infidels...

The line in the sand, is drawn.

He's dead.

Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

tombogan03884

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 08:23:42 PM »
I respectfully disagree, he denounced the American Constitution, his Pledge Of Allegiance, his upbringing, his culture, his heritage, his families, his original life, etc,...

He left American soil, to recruit, train, enable, jihadist's to kill Americans, preferably civilians,....ya' know like women and children,...

He used Al-Jazeera, and other terrorist propaganda mechanisms to promote this.,...

He(they) got what he(they) deserved....

At some point, they go too far....and deserve to meet Allah. They didn't believe in this Countries beliefs,... we are the Infidels...

The line in the sand, is drawn.

He's dead.

None of that matters.
He was a US citizen.
The Constitutions Bill of rights is there to protect the ones who hold unpopular views, not just the ones the majority agree with.
You own guns, you oppose the presence of "undocumented workers".
Maybe they'll put a missile up your ass next.
Even traitors get a trial. Tokyo Rose made propaganda broadcasts for the Japanese, she got a trial and a prison term.

twyacht

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 08:33:25 PM »
Traitors deserve to be shot.

And if found on foreign soil, taking up arms IN COMBAT, against American troops, OBTW, planning civilian targets of terrorism, they deserve to die like the wretched vermin they are.

http://listverse.com/2010/07/04/top-10-traitors-in-us-history/

Tokyo Rose was pardoned by Ford, by a rigged trial.

Tell that to Vets that listened to her, as they held their troops guts in while taking incoming fire.





Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #5 on: Today at 10:31:55 AM »

TAB

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 08:33:54 PM »
if you are in a war zone, with the enemy( by choice) you get what ever is coming too you.
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

twyacht

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 08:45:24 PM »
if you are in a war zone, with the enemy( by choice) you get what ever is coming too you.

A +1 from me to you TAB. Thank you for even spelling things correctly. ;)



Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

TAB

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2011, 08:50:14 PM »
A +1 from me to you TAB. Thank you for even spelling things correctly. ;)





now you know I'm going to edit that post and mis spell every thing right?
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

Solus

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2011, 09:24:54 PM »
We shoot home invaders or anyone else who poses a threat our life and safety, and don't worry about their citizenship. 

Since we have more chance of apprehending the home invader and bringing him to trial than this traitor I don't have any problem with taking any shot that presents itself.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

tombogan03884

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Re: Assasinating US Citizens
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2011, 11:44:28 PM »
We shoot home invaders or anyone else who poses a threat our life and safety, and don't worry about their citizenship.  

Since we have more chance of apprehending the home invader and bringing him to trial than this traitor I don't have any problem with taking any shot that presents itself.

We shoot them to eliminate an immediate threat, when they leave and go to the next town we allow the Constitutionally defined legal process to deal with them.

if you are in a war zone, with the enemy( by choice) you get what ever is coming too you.

First off, last I heard the "war zone was Iraq and Afghanistan, we aren't involved in Yemen,
Second, there is a big difference between the US govt saying we need to hit this target, and what they actually said which was, "We need to kill this US citizen"
I'm surprised that some one who is such a stickler about "Property rights"  is so willing to piss on rights of some one else just because you don't approve of him.

]
Traitors deserve to be shot.

And if found on foreign soil, taking up arms IN COMBAT, against American troops, OBTW, planning civilian targets of terrorism, they deserve to die like the wretched vermin they are.

http://listverse.com/2010/07/04/top-10-traitors-in-us-history/

Tokyo Rose was pardoned by Ford, by a rigged trial.

Tell that to Vets that listened to her, as they held their troops guts in while taking incoming fire.


Don't even go there with 2How and I. How many years did you serve ?

It was your kind of thinking , "They're not shitting on me, f*ck the other guy" that allowed Hitler to have his way.
Obama has you hypocrites pegged.


 

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