New Iranian Suicide Idea! - Threatening the US

[fightingquaker13]

Have the ship return to base with all sailors at the rail mooning the Iranian forces.  Some planes flying CAP.   

All that will happen is we will be called Imperialist Devils....well, someone might call us insensitive to the feelings of Iranian sailors.

Gee, if they called us imperialists, everyone might start doing it, and that would be bad. I mean, in an ideal world, where words actually matter, one of two things would happen. In their ideal world, we'd be so ashamed we'd castrate ourselves like the Brits have done and apologize for not doing it sooner and failing to do it with a rusty spoon. Or, in my ideal world, we might say, "Gee, imperialism, haven't thought about that concept in a while. Hmm, they hate us anyway, they do have all that oil, and as long as we're in the neighborhood.........".
FQ13

[Pathfinder]

I'll second Jnevis mauler. Ever since the birth of the Republic we've stood for freedom of the seas. Most Of the reason for the War of 1812 was that we insisted, or tried to insist, on our rights to trade with both sides during the Napoleonic Wars. Should the Iranian Navy, such as it is choose to cruise through the Straits of Florida that's their business. The Soviets did it, the Chinese have done it, and the Russians just took a trip to Venezuela. It made some right wing idiots froth at the mouth, but cooler heads were actually glad, because it was a de facto acknowledgement of our doctrine of freedom of the seas. The Straits of Formosa, the Straits of Florida, and the Straits of Hormuz. Its all the same. As long as you stay in International waters its your right to be there. Now, that doesn't mean you don't go on alert, but it is in the interest of every country, including Iran to respect that.

Brought to you all directly from the TOOL-box yet again.

Slam the "right wingers", and then make a "bold" pronouncement that is true only so long - and I mean to the very minute - that the oceans can't be forcefully kept open, any little tinpot dictator with silkworms or left-over exocets can close any damn body of water they chose to close. In a world in chaos, "International" waters begin at the end of the range of a missile.

The US currently has the ability to project its power, but I would not bank on bho having the will to do any projecting any time soon. And tomorrow, who knows if we will have the will, the tools or the ability to do any projecting. It never bodes well if we have to rely on others, like the Russkies or China, to do our projecting for us. We may not benefit from their projection.

[Solus]

Best thing that would happen for the US is that BHO would cave on this one...(not likely though)...it would endure his non-re-election.

Second best is that he dithers and looks so indecisive on such a vital issue he again kisses a second term goodbye.

Worst thing would be that, as much as he may want to appease the world of Islam, he acts decisively, calls their bluff and look to be dynamic and powerful leader. 

As a matter of fact, being decisive here will be such a benefit to him, you have to wonder if it's a setup.

[fightingquaker13]

Brought to you all directly from the TOOL-box yet again.

Slam the "right wingers", and then make a "bold" pronouncement that is true only so long - and I mean to the very minute - that the oceans can't be forcefully kept open, any little tinpot dictator with silkworms or left-over exocets can close any damn body of water they chose to close. In a world in chaos, "International" waters begin at the end of the range of a missile.

The US currently has the ability to project its power, but I would not bank on bho having the will to do any projecting any time soon. And tomorrow, who knows if we will have the will, the tools or the ability to do any projecting. It never bodes well if we have to rely on others, like the Russkies or China, to do our projecting for us. We may not benefit from their projection.

You really don't bother to read what I actually write do you? You just look for a fight. It has been a bipartisan policy to preserve freedom of navigation. I wasn't slamming the GOp or conservatives. You know darn well that there are alarmist idiots on the right that have a conniption every time any hostile nation conducts an  exercise or sails its fleet. They do it for domestic consumption and they shouldn't be taken seriously. Reagan didn't, Bush Senior didn't, why do you? The reason why is that, in this case, international consensus on freedom of navigation is very much in our interest. And as for me not taking the need for a powerful, and expeditionary military as essential? Have I ever posted anything that sugests I don't? Take a Midol Path, and pick a fight with someone who actually disagrees with you on this issue.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

Pathfinder, our resident liberal would never dream of bashing the GOP over Freedom of Navigation.

He'd much rather save his bashing for the Monroe Doctrine.   

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

Pathfinder, our resident liberal would never dream of bashing the GOP over Freedom of Navigation.

He'd much rather save his bashing for the Monroe Doctrine.   

I'm fine with that too. I had quibbles with the Roosevelt Corollary, but events in Mexico have made me reconsider the issue, and I think Teddy might have had it right.
FQ13

[twyacht]

Where's deepwater, he racks up the nautical miles of International Shipping, rules and reg's, and has passed through the Hormuz many times....

Challenge the 5th Fleet? In open Straights?   Bad Idea....

The Navy, will eviscerate any "wannabe" Capt. that launches anything in the direction of the American ships.. Not only will we have maritime law on our side, (that the UN can cry at),...it just may send many a Iranian Sailor (kinda funny even typing that),...to meet Usama with his 72 sheep,,,uh, virgins....to the bottom....

Make it a poker game and call their bluff.

and Teddy did have it right,....except the Krag's issued to US GI's, were no match for the Mauser's. It was battle tactics, and calling their bluff, (with a wee bit of luck) that gave Teddy his San Juan Hill.

[Solus]

I remember back when Regan was Pres.

Some country, maybe Libya, had a couple of their aircraft come aggressively close to a US War Ship.  

They got shot down and Regan wasn't informed of the incident till he was up and having his morning coffee.

When the media asked if he was displeased with the Commander for taking that action and for not being informed about it immediately, Regan responded that the Commander did exactly what the situation called for by SOP.  There was no need for them to trouble me when they were just doing their jobs.

Same should  happen in this situation.  

[jnevis]

Challenge the 5th Fleet? In open Straights?   Bad Idea....

The Navy, will eviscerate any "wannabe" Capt. that launches anything in the direction of the American ships.. Not only will we have maritime law on our side, (that the UN can cry at),...it just may send many a Iranian Sailor (kinda funny even typing that),...to meet Usama with his 72 sheep,,,uh, virgins....to the bottom....

I only made three trips in/out of the Straits and spent two of them on airborne alert watching for anything "hinky" and about 50+ missions watching Iran while the boat was making circles off Kharg Island.  Chased their P-3 away a few times.  

The Straits aren't as "open" as you'd like to believe.  The closest choke point is 35 miles point to point, that leaves 9 miles of channel between Iran and Oman.  A CSSC-2/HY-1 could cover the entire gap in about 2 minutes at less than 50ft.  Pretty hard to detect and destroy a small target in 45 seconds from launch to impact, even with CIWS.  

They don't really have the Navy to go toe to toe with us, but they are the largest in the region.  All they'd need to do is sink a tanker or, God forbid, warship in the right spot and try getting your shipping in or out.  It's only 50-75 meters deep in the Strait.

[Timothy]

The Iranians have two or three Russian Kilo diesel electric subs that are designed for shallow water operation with sound deadening tiles affixed to their hulls.  Anyone in the Sonar business, passive or active is scared to death of these "Black Holes" in the ocean.  They are the biggest threat to the Carrier Battle Group of the 5th.

On battery, they're all but undetectable.