Statistics on Striker Fired guns firing on their own??

[AE3007H1]

Yes,
 
I think we  are on the same page.  I reload and like I was saying, some primers are soft and will light easily, some are the opposite.  With that being said, the same goes for the primers of different factory ammunition.  So it might be safe to say that if you are using soft primers, LOOK OUT! haha and if you have hard to normal primers??? 

Now the question is:  with normal run of the mill factory ammo, does the factory (unaltered) firing pin spring on your striker fired handguns have enough power to igniite the primer/ammo without being further compressed by depressing the trigger.

On the M&P one could do a test to find out by removing the rear sight and putting a dowel in in place of the plunger.  Secure the gun into a shooting vice. And attach a string, or some way to quickly remove the dowel from the top of the slide to see if it will fire... The Glocks would not give you this option.  Maybe I will try next time I get to the range..... Any other takers?? haha 

[Solus]

Glock pistols also have a Firing Pin Safety that is spring loaded and puts a block in the path of the firing pin that is removed when the trigger is pulled.

A firing spring or sear failure will not allow the pistol to fire.

The Firing Pin Safety Spring would have to fail and it is not a stressed part.  It is possible that a drop at the right angle might cause the block to be  moved out of the way due to inertia, but then a sear failure or release due to the same shock would have to happen and then the partially tensioned firing spring would have to be strong enough to ignite the primer.

I guess it is possible that the drop might be of sufficient force and the correct angle to cause the safety, sear and firing pin to all bounce because of inertia in just the right order and time to cause a discharge, but I don't think that is very likely and if the gun is holstered and your daughter is hugging your leg during an impact capable of that force, getting shot is going to be the least of her risks.


But I do understand your concern.  Letting any firearm point at anyone you do not intend to shoot should be avoided when possible.  But that is only possible (and really not completely) when you have it in your hand.  If you sit down with a front pocket holster, someone walking in front of you will likely be covered, but the chance of discharge at that moment with a modern firearm, at a Glock, is very small.

[r_w]

I understand your concern, have the same one myself.  It is YOUR job to be aware of your situation.  I know 2 YO's are sneaky little ninjas, but consider it training.  Your own little Cato. 

[AE3007H1]

Solus,  yes I do agree.  And the probability of this happening is so minute.... But it does warent discussion.  Thank you

r_w,  Yes my little ninja is 1yr today and WIDE OPEN.  You are correct it is our responsibility to be aware.  I was not on that one occasion and it is what has spurred this thread.  As I stated, my wife and I have had a discussion about this and have put measures into place to help us keep this situation from happening again.  It just goes to show that there are dangers and dangerous situations everywhere no matter how safe you try to be or think you are YOU CAN ALWAYS BE SAFER and improve on your safety program.

Thank you all

[Ping]

Sorry guys, been away on another forum. Just saw this.

AE3007H1, the firing pin for Glocks do not touch the primer until the trigger is pulled. There are three safeties being the trigger safety, firing pin safety and drop safety.

"The spring loaded firing pin safety projects into the firing pin channel and mechanically blocks the firing pin from moving forward." The trigger must be pulled in order for the Glock to fire.

As for statistics of striker fired guns such as Glock or the M&P going off for no reason other than operator error? Could not tell you where to search. Every "oops" is generally caused by not following any of the three safety rules of: Keeping your finger off the trigger, keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction or keeping the gun unloaded until ready to shoot. The first rule is the one violated that usually produces a negligent discharge.

Hope this helps.

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

I agree that Glocks have a pretty good safety system.

And, for sure, a Glock laying flat on a table and undisturbed has as much chance of discharging as any revolver or hammer fired semi in the same circumstances.....virtually zero, if not zero.  Cooking off the rounds with microwaves would count as being disturbed.

But, as safe as that would be, if my daughter stood on her tiptoes and looked over the edge of the table into the barrel of that gun, even if it was well out of her reach, I'd be strongly uncomfortable with that situation.

I think that is what AE is getting at.

But the chances are so close to zero as not to matter.

The DEA had what was called the Frisbee Test, where a cocked Glock (I don't think it was loaded, but they may have done that in a safe environment) was tossed like a frisbee into a wall or to the floor to see if there were any failures.  (15 foot toss with 4 foot drop)

The Glock did fail.  The slide was jarred from the frame but the striker remained cocked, or half-cocked to be more precise.  The result of the test was modifications to the partial frame rails embedded in the Glock frame, making the bigger and stronger (took two tries at it but any Gen 1 Glocks can be upgraded for free), but nothing was needed as far as the striker, it was solid.

If the Glock can repeatedly withstand that kind of impact and abuse, I can't imagine any type of normal disturbance causing a spontaneous discharge.

[AE3007H1]

Ping,  thankyou,  i am very familiar with the workings of Glock and other striker fired guns.   i  was specifically speaking about the possible failures of these safety mechanisms.   skim the beginnings of the thread a little more so you can see what has been said.  it sound like you might have some more to add once you are up to speed.   thank you again.


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[Ping]

AE, call Glock and ask if they have any statistics. 770-432-1202. I personally have not heard of any for Glock.

While teaching firearms safety, we teach that mechanical safeties can fail. The best safety utilized is the one between your ears. Then follow the three safety rules. I have a three year old running around the house so I keep track of every firearm and ensure all are safe or locked up.

[AE3007H1]

Well I guess the statement "The best safety utilized is the one between your ears"  is evident by me asking and "thinking" about this possible problem! haha  Thank you for your input and I will call Glock on Monday.  I will also call Paul at S&W.  He has been really good to me in the past and I am a M&P fan first.  I will report back here on this thread once I have compiled some data from the manufacturers.  I am finishing my RSO and Firearms safety / concealed carry instructor certifications next month.  This will all be very good information for my classes. And anyone else's that may use it.  Again, thank you.

[ScottieG59]

I understand your concern. I go by the rule of not allowing the muzzle to aim at anything I do not intend to shoot. Unfortunately,  in the real world, there are moments where someone may be in line with the muzzle. When I am upstairs and others are downstairs is an example.

I have 6 kids at home ranging from 10 months to 14 years old. Realistically, I think the greatest danger would be a child getting one of my guns. Most of my efforts are in preventing that from happening.

You should consider your child to young and immobile to get and manipulate your gun. Kids grow in leaps and bounds and many can climb before they walk. When one of my sons was 3, he climbed to the top shelf of our pantry by splaying his feet against the walls and ratcheting himself to the top. As a baby, he would climb out of his crib, retrieve one of the other babies from another crib and climb down to the floor with her to play. We ended out getting a crib tent to contain him at night. Fortunately, he liked it. He also could never be contained with gates since he either climbed over or would shake them until they broke.

When I navigate my house with kids on various places on the floor, I ensure I never cover the kids with the muzzle. Also, when I place a gun down or put it in the safe, I make sure it faces a safe direction.

Anyway, I also assume a gun can go off at any time and treat it accordingly. However, I do my best to carry safely by using a quality holster that is rigid and will not drop the gun if I sit down or move about. I only carry drop safe guns and i do not drink or do drugs. Though it is unlikely the gun or ammo will ever fail, the odds are above zero.