New Member Intro

[johncasey4]

Wisco, it is that attitude in particular that allows me to feel the way I do about the NRA.  The idea that only an NRA guy can know anything about guns is ridiculous.  I got through the door on the merits of my ability to teach this stuff well.  And firearms instructor is one of many things that I do, but it doesn't define me as a person, the same as being a SEAL doesn't define me as a person.

Tom, the biggest reason for my lack of support is hidden there in your comment, they are a lobbyist group.  In my opinion (worth exactly nothing), lobbyist, regardless of what they fight for, are the equivalent of the serpent in the Garden of Eden, and the second biggest cause of the corruption of our government, the first would be the men and women that sit in the seat of power and chose money over the people.  And Tom, do me a personal favor and don't ever quote Marcinko again, it makes us all look cheap.

Jumbo,
I am not anti-gun, I am a big fan of guns (I know, never would have guessed on a gun chat board).  And if you are naive enough to believe that because guns are illegal that people won't have them or need to know how to use them... Well, we can look at prohibition as an example of what happens when the government takes a stab at telling the people what they can't have, the war on drugs too.  Regardless, because of the work of the NRA, guns aren't illegal, which is great.  Doesn't mean I have to join them, or support them.

m58, I am glad that you stand on your convictions.  You should adamantly support the things you believe in.  I don't believe in God, so I won't be putting change in the plate.  Has religion done some good things in this world?  Yep, does that change my mind?  Nope.

To all of you;  Don't confuse what I am saying for disrespect, it isn't intended that way.  The bottom line is that while I may want to kill the muther effer who burns a flag, I still spent ten years defending his RIGHT to do it.  Chat board bullying isn't likely to change my mind, and neither is the "hide your guns here come the dems" sentiments.  Now, we can chose to agree to disagree and move to something more useful, someone can give me a good reason to join other than the things that I have heard everyday since the first time I held a gun or you can keep blowing a whole lot of smoke... it matters not to me.  You aren't going to hurt my feelings and you are going to have to work to change my mind, but if you do, you will have my respect as an articulate citizen, maybe even one deserving of that right to keep and bare arms...

[tombogan03884]

Granted lobbyists are co$#su&#ers, no argument there. But that's the way the game is played . We in the gun culture have been to nice for to long, we need to fight the anti gun propaganda with propaganda of our own, (fire with fire).
At least the NRA are OUR co#@su&$ers, the way to achieve fire superiority in Washington is with numbers. I have to laugh at your attitude, we are donating to fight for our beliefs, while you are refusing to donate to fight for your pay check. I'm sure you will see the irony here.
Let's beat these bastards with the soap box and ballot box, while I may be willing I am in reality to old, out of shape, experienced, and comfortable to REALLY want to resort to the bullet box.
(Got to admit a certain satisfaction though from the mental image of Schumer, Reid , Pelosi etc hand cuffed to posts while some young officer says,"Detail, Present, ARMS,, Ready,, Aim......   )

PS Don't think endurance will help you either, I've been having the same argument with my Dad for over 30 years  , I think I'm finally wearing him down though.

[johncasey4]

There is so much more irony in your statement, let's see.  You are assuming that I value my paycheck over my integrity, you would wrong as two boys having sex.  To me, if I have to submit to something that I am against, in any form, to fight for what I believe in, then it is a wash, a no win, a draw.  And not even a tie, when it comes to my integrity, there is very little I put above it.  How can I, in one breath say that I think lobbying groups are destroying our government and therefore by proxy our nation, and then go support a lobbying group...

  What I find ironic is that you, Tom, live in a state who's motto is "Live Free or Die" and you feel like you have to give up one freedom to support another (and yes, feeling obliged to give to an organization is a loss of freedom, regardless of the cost).  And second and even funnier, is that you live in a town named after a region whose people wouldn't even give a token of "Earth and Water" to appease the people trying to disarm them.  Laconia (Sparta) and it's people refused to accept life any other way than that which they saw fit. 

  You know what is worst of all?  We are a country born of fire, blood and a refusal to accept things other than the way we want it.  We pontificate about republican this and democrat that.  Do you realize that if George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were alive today that they would most likely be leading a violent revolution against a defunct system plagued by lies, only out for themselves and dead set against removing things that should be ours by birthright?  If we hadn't grown so comfortable in our ways, the ways given to us by the very freedoms that we hold dear, that we would have taken our country back by now.  So you pay someone to go to Washington and stump for you, and so they get the job done this year... great, good for you.  It is a bandaid, just like all of this bailout money that they are giving away.  I won't support it, end of story.  It isn't a question of endurance, it is a question of integrity, and until someone gives me a reason larger than that I won't be joining...

[wisconsin]

johncasey4: I'm going to take a leap of faith here in regards to your background. Since we are not face to face I can't do anything other than believe that you know what your talking about so for me to get into I know this but you know more. Well lets just set the tone for my train of thought. I don't know sh$t about most things relating to self defense/firearms other than I practice every week on Wed. That is why I come here and that is why I'm learning. If you train LEO's than you and they get a pass in regards to the NRA. You are training them for life skills so they come home to thier families evey night. If  your trained LEO's have a problem with the local school yard bully they can get thier buddies and pound the crap out of him. If you train active military for thier life skills before going to some shit hole of a place to put thier lives on the line for me so I can bitch at my wife why we pay for cable and there is never anything on TV. Then you and they get a pass on the joining the NRA. Because if they have a problem with the bully they can get thier buddies find him and kick the crap out of him. Now to the punch line. If you train civilians like me for home defense life skills or offer info on this or any forum then you need to be on the same level of earth that I am on. The bottom. You see when a average working guy/gal has a problem with the local bully the only friend I have is the NRA. So how can I believe in you as my trainer if your not even on the same common ground as me . Last time I looked most of the people here on DRTV have the same problem with the same school yard bully as me. We have common ground. 

[fullautovalmet76]

Hi John!
Welcome aboard! I can tell from the other posts your house warming party is going rather swimmingly.....I also would like to offer my sincere thanks for your service to our country.

As for the NRA thing, I don't think anyone can give you a good enough reason. No reason from without will work, only the reason from within. I think everyone has to decide what's in it for them, what do they have to lose or to gain before they commit to any organization or cause.

Now for something completely different: will you take the time to dispel the top 10 myths about the SEALs? Just so you understand where I'm coming from, I know you can't divulge stuff that will get you thrown in prison or put your friends in danger; I get that. I'm talking about things like this:
Do all SEALs carry H&K pistols? This comes from the some of your "colleagues", the "gun store commandos", which are deployed at local gun stores around the nation.....

[Sponsor]

[brosometal]

Two pages and already some dis-jointed cyber noses.  Wow.  In the interest of civility let me see if I can clarify what I have read so far:

There a multitude of people here with a common interest.

These folks come from a variety of backgrounds.

These backgrounds help dictate our world views.

Some of these world views don't mix well.

Not mixing well produces friction.

Friction produces heat...

What the hell was my point?  Oh yeah I hear it rattling around in there some where, back to the whole background deal.  Some folks' highly specialized backgrounds would lend themselves to a unique perspective and thus a unique take on said lobby-ing  organization.

johncasey4, welcome.  I can't help but like when someone kicks open a door to say hello.  I have enjoyed your thoughtfully worded replies as well as your very-pointy-tip-o-the-spear perspective.

A quick question:  Should I take the Steelers strait up or the Ravens with the points.  But I digress...

[johncasey4]

Wisconsin, first off brother, don't take leaps of faith, don't put faith in what I say or do, when you deal with me remove faith from your vocabulary... why?  Because faith by definition removes the right to question.  Your brain is far more powerful than any gun you will ever carry, don't surrender it willingly ever.  As to your thoughts on my perspective, again you are forgetting the goal.  You, the Green Berets and LA SWAT, at the end of the day, all have the same goal in training, to make it more likely that you go home at the end of the conflict.  Boiled down it is as simple as that.  When I am teaching shooting, and just shooting, everyone gets the same thing.  There isn't an "advanced super secret Navy Seal technique" that I will only teach to people that have a "I'm a ninja" letter.  Tactics are different, that has to apply to the individual, but shooting is the same.  Let me be perfectly clear with you, who I chose to affiliate with has absolutely no bearing on how or what I teach outside of what I have limited myself to learning.  If I were your trainer, you would be encouraged to ask questions that challenged the very ground that I built my case upon and if you found a glaring deficiency, I would DEMAND that you called me on it.  The NRA has nothing to do with what I teach, even if it was an NRA curriculum.  I have learned a great many things with regard to shooting.  I have accepted the responsibility of vetting all information based on rational thought and science.  Anything else is emotionally contrived BS and it has zero place in this world.

Full Auto, thanks for the welcome.  I agree with your thoughts on the decision having to come from the inside.  With regards to your other question, let's see; 1.  Team guys are issued Sigs, I have no idea what they carry personally, I carry an M&P compact 9mm.
2. Seals do not like cold water, in fact they hate it (usually) and in general being cold at all. 3. Team guys don't use 90% of the equipment advertised as "Official _____ of the Navy Seals." 4.BUDs, while difficult isn't the hardest training in the world... Being in a platoon is much harder.  5. Yes, we all remember what class we graduated with, no class numbers don't have letters, yes we will do everything we can to destroy you if you say you were, and weren't a Seal. 
Those are really all I can think of at this point, if you have any specific questions I will usually answer them.  The bottom line for me is that being a Seal enabled me to do a great many things, it opened doors, but it doesn't define who I am... just a job, and at the end of the day, a job like any other job that you get tired of...

brosmetal- take the Steelers, the ravens had like 20 injuries last weekend and Flaco is bound to make "the Mistake" some time.  Thanks for the welcome, I think we are going to have fun, hopefully we all learn a little too.

[tombogan03884]

There is so much more irony in your statement, let's see.  You are assuming that I value my paycheck over my integrity, you would wrong as two boys having sex.  To me, if I have to submit to something that I am against, in any form, to fight for what I believe in, then it is a wash, a no win, a draw.  And not even a tie, when it comes to my integrity, there is very little I put above it.  How can I, in one breath say that I think lobbying groups are destroying our government and therefore by proxy our nation, and then go support a lobbying group...

  What I find ironic is that you, Tom, live in a state who's motto is "Live Free or Die" and you feel like you have to give up one freedom to support another (and yes, feeling obliged to give to an organization is a loss of freedom, regardless of the cost).  And second and even funnier, is that you live in a town named after a region whose people wouldn't even give a token of "Earth and Water" to appease the people trying to disarm them.  Laconia (Sparta) and it's people refused to accept life any other way than that which they saw fit. 

  You know what is worst of all?  We are a country born of fire, blood and a refusal to accept things other than the way we want it.  We pontificate about republican this and democrat that.  Do you realize that if George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were alive today that they would most likely be leading a violent revolution against a defunct system plagued by lies, only out for themselves and dead set against removing things that should be ours by birthright?  If we hadn't grown so comfortable in our ways, the ways given to us by the very freedoms that we hold dear, that we would have taken our country back by now.  So you pay someone to go to Washington and stump for you, and so they get the job done this year... great, good for you.  It is a bandaid, just like all of this bailout money that they are giving away.  I won't support it, end of story.  It isn't a question of endurance, it is a question of integrity, and until someone gives me a reason larger than that I won't be joining...

New about the Laconia / Sparta name thing, but Greek history is not really one of my eras of interest other than the basics, Thermopylae, Marathon that's about it.
As to Washington and Jefferson, Yes, I realize that and if you read back through some of my past posts you would know that I'm not averse to the idea, but it's 4 frigging degrees here tonight, If I can get some lawyer to fight for me while I sleep in a WARM, INDOOR bed, I think it's a good thing. I've slept in a fox hole before, (while another guy ate and the third took a sh!t in a C - ration box) not quite the Marriott.  Also, I AM trying to do something about the erosion of our rights by working to protect the ultimate balance in the system of checks and balances.
As to being "forced" to join the NRA, I was no more forced into that than I was "forced " into the Marine Corps. I did it because any one who benefits from this country and does not give something back is either a leech or a coward, just like an illegal alien who never paid taxes but goes to Ca. and signs up for welfare.
As for the comments about your "integrity", while we are campaigning for candidates, writing letters to editors and media out lets, funding lawsuits, paying for advertising and educating, what are you doing besides sitting at a range or bar impressing every one with your "war stories". To paraphrase something I told the ex wife, "Your fingers are typing, but all I read is BLAH Blah blah."

[johncasey4]

So Tom, the Ad Hominem argument at the end of your post is classic, a little unexpected and also a really funny way of saying that you give up.

  What am I doing, well in the last year and a half I have started 3 businesses and had success at all 3, businesses generate jobs, pay taxes and support the economy, what does campaigning support?  Yeah, nothing but a candidate or a cause, neither of which is likely to save the Good Ole' U S of A from becoming a socialistic ses pool.  Oh by the way, I am also a father of a 2 1/2 year old barbarian and a 3 month old baby girl, I go to school full time and I, along with a great amount of help, keep the doors to Valhalla open (granted there isn't much work going on, but there I sit). 

  What do I do in bars, frankly is completely up to me.  Personally I think bars are for one thing only and that is getting so drunk that you can't see.  Rob and Jeremiah can both attest to this, they have seen it first hand.  I don't tell war stories (other than remembering friends with friends) and I don't shoot my mouth off about who I was or what I did.  Usually I make up some story that has nothing to do with being a Seal (this is pretty common) because dropping the "Sbomb" is a sure sign of weakness.

Finally, I am not your wife, I don't have to put up with your mental weakness, I am not required by anything other than the AUP to be polite to you or even respond to you.  I don't have to take anything you do, have done or will do seriously... but I will, not because of you, but in spite of you.  I judge people based on what information they give me to base my judgement on... If you are supposed to repping the NRA to me, you just failed.  Fortunately for you, I know that you don't speak for the NRA.  Your wife must have the patience of a saint by the way.  Oh I'm sorry, blah blah blah

[1776 Rebel]

JC4, you know I hope that you understand as a business man, that you've probably done more damage to the Pincus business than I've thought possible. You clearly jumped on the wrong forum. Have a nice life.