Dept. Of Homeland Security Orders 450 MILLION RDS. of .40 Caliber

[twyacht]

One item of note Ping, NO ONE is quashing any usurpation done by this Admin. No one is standing up and saying:

There are those that are Churchill's or Chamberlains.

We have been, and are continuing to be played. All at our expense as the taxpaying sheeple.... The foot soldier, whether an ICE agent, or family man from the BATFE, or DHS agent that just wants to go to work and go home to his/her family.

It's higher up's that are the puppet master's in this game.....

Most of the citizenry won't "get it"....and go with the flow,....even to their own demise as a Country......However,....there are those that have that "little" voice that says,....Bulls**t....I will not go too quietly into that good night.

If the SHTF,...pray you know the latter....

It's a big if,......but I'll take a Boy Scout mindset, over a citizen waiting for what the gov't can do for me....

+1 on the Blue Helmets....

[tombogan03884]

This contract is over years and is a Federal Contract for DHS. Seen an uproar on other forums in reference to this. I think it is a waste of energy. The .40 Smith and Wesson round

The events that took place with Hitler would never take place in the United States. It would be quashed as soon as it began. The communication we have today would spread at the touch of a key stroke.

I get rather sick of seeing our Federal LEO's bashed by those fearing the black helicopters that will never come. They are very well trained but they are also human beings, along with being American citizens. They are plenty aware that if they were given an order to come and take our guns that it would be suicide.

Now the guys who wear the powder blue helmets, that is another story and something that should be monitored.

If you actually believe that ridiculous statement , then you obviously haven't been paying attention.
Just for starters the "GCA 68" was based on the Nazi gun laws, and that was 40 years ago.
You need to read some history Ping.
Hitler was ELECTED by the German people, and every thing he did, including the concentration camps, was perfectly legal under German law.
Which puts him in a better category than Obama.

[jnevis]

To correct what you guys are all missing is that is 450 Million rounds TOTAL over five years not 450 Million every year.  That's 90 Mil per year MAX

DHS directly supplies the FOUR departments (with around 90-120K total that would require some level of firearms training, they also supply DHS students at the four Federal training academies, which would be around 1K rounds per student and a few thousand students a year.  


Magoo-It's a LEO contract.  As far as numbers, look again at what  I posted earlier.  That's the current strength as listed in a couple different websites.  ALL the USSS and USCG/USCGR personnel listed would require firearms training (around 58K), ICE and CBP are still a higher percentage of armed personnel vice admin types.

The Security Depart at Lemoore while I was there expended close to 90,000 rounds of 9mm per year to maintain quals plus 10,000 for duty carry.  The duty ammo gets rotated after six months and gets used by the Range Staff for currency after two years, in addition to unexpended training allocation since you CANNOT have extra at the end of the year (Lots of "Hey we have four cases of 9, two cases of 223, and six cases of 12 to get rid of today")  The Airlift squadron had an allocation of 40K annually for quals for all air crew and most support personnel.  

[Magoo541]

Like it was said before that is 90 million rounds of one caliber, 40 S&W.

So that many Federal Law enforcement agencies, USCG is military BTW, doesn't alarm you?  I can see 20,000 Boarder Patrol agents needing training (too few by half if you ask me), 42,000 in the Coast Guard (+30,000 reservist), 4,500 Secret Service Agents, and 20,000 ICE agents needing to train and qualify.  That is a total of 116,500 agents.  

90,000,000 rounds a year at $.50 a round (quality ammo in bulk)=$45,000,000?  Its our money and its funny the one place other than wealth transfer they are willing to spend it is on ammunition for Federal Law Enforcement.
However DHS also has under its umbrella: TSA (few are LEO) and FEMA (uh... ya).

Just for some perspective according to Ammunition quarterly (http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/am/ammunition/Corporate_Center/Ammunition_Quarterly/Vol10No3.pdf) The Marine Corps (127,000 active duty,30,000 Reserve and 5,000 Fleet Reserve) spent $146,000,000 in 2002; $417,000,000 in 2003 ;$237,000,000 in 2004; $245,000,000 in 2005.  Which includes 12-12.5 million rounds of 7.62 @ a cost of $6 to 9,000,000 per year.  How about 5.56, the entire Marine Corps shoots 70 million in training annually, yes ANNUALLY.  So if you combine both 7.62 AND 5.56 the Marines shoot less than the DHS departments...

It would appear that DHS is equipping its own military.

[jnevis]

The Coast Gaurd is NOT part of the military except as ordered by Congress, and only in a limited capacity.  It is, and always has been, primarily a law enforcement agency.

Another thing to remember is that the numbers you're focused on are maximums not what actually is being ordered.
One of the contracts I support is an IDIQ for 300 units a year but we're only getting like 80 total over the legnth of the contract, but the supplier has to be CAPABLE of supplying all 300 in a year.

[Sponsor]

[Magoo541]

Another thing to remember is that the numbers you're focused on are maximums not what actually is being ordered.
One of the contracts I support is an IDIQ for 300 units a year but we're only getting like 80 total over the legnth of the contract, but the supplier has to be CAPABLE of supplying all 300 in a year.

Government constraint?  HA!  Surely you jest!?

Still that is more 40 cal that the USMC uses 7.62 and 5.56 in a year.

[jnevis]

I didn't even get much past the header on the MARCORSYSCOM report you referenced.  That report is SEVEN years old so you're comparison is apples to oranges.  Even then it references the Marines firing over 70M 5.56 a year.

Add to the numbers for DHS is the fact that the Coasties only adopted the Sig P229 in 40 starting in 06 in a limited number and the initial issue across the CG took a year.  Then you have to cycle through and dispose of the older (9mm) and replace it with the new round.  You also have to do more training with it up front "transition training."  http://www.military.com/features/0%2C15240%2C96246%2C00.html

The same thing will happen if the military goes back to the 45ACP or to 40SW.  The new pistol will be allocated but except for certain armory and training staff they will remain in storage until the ammunition supply can be sustained and the ammo it's replacing hits a certain level.  Then units will begin transition training which uses more than double the "normal" allocation for the couple years.  Then the allocations will drop to more stable numbers.

[Magoo541]

70 million rounds of 5.56 and 12.5 million rounds of 7.62 during wartime for the 150,000 Marines compared to 116,500 DHS agents using 90 million rounds is comparing apples to oranges? 

Whatever....

[PegLeg45]

This contract is over years and is a Federal Contract for DHS. Seen an uproar on other forums in reference to this. I think it is a waste of energy. The .40 Smith and Wesson round

The events that took place with Hitler would never take place in the United States. It would be quashed as soon as it began. The communication we have today would spread at the touch of a key stroke.

I get rather sick of seeing our Federal LEO's bashed by those fearing the black helicopters that will never come. They are very well trained but they are also human beings, along with being American citizens. They are plenty aware that if they were given an order to come and take our guns that it would be suicide.

Now the guys who wear the powder blue helmets, that is another story and something that should be monitored.

Just remember this is the same gubmint administration that doesn't want YOU to own firearms and ammo (remember, if you stockpile ammo you are an extremist)....but will gladly shell out millions to buy it for ENFORCEMENT agencies.
Kinda seems like a double standard in a sense.

I'm not a 'conspiracy' guy by a long shot......and 99% of the time I joke about the 'black helicopters' rather than take them seriously....... but, I'll never say "never" if only because it's always possible...even if not probable....and you'd be surprised at who lands on which side.

And the "quashing by keystroke"........spreading the 'word' via keyboard is one thing......physically going out and taking up arms in defense of your rights, against the gubmint......well, that's another.

[Solus]

I'll try again...from latest figures posted here.....

450,000,000 rounds for 5 years = 90,000,000 per year.

116,500 DHS agents = 773 rounds per agent per year.

Really, I don't think that makes enough for even poor training.