The trouble with Florida's 'stand your ground' law

[twyacht]

Even though as more info has been learned including Zimmerman stating "f" ing coons on audio, and the Real LEO's told him to stand down, and he exited his vehicle to engage in a pursuit.

Start video at the 2:20 mark, and turn it up...

http://stevekaneshow.com/

Either way, this is a wrong interpretation of the Stand Your Ground Law, but the kneejerk anti's are already calling for its repeal.

Do you want to know the training req's for Community Watch Capt are?

Raise your hand at the meeting.....Your Hired....

[tombogan03884]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sanford-city-manager-says-were-barred-arresting-trayvon-134007644.html


The city of Sanford, Florida has claimed that it did not arrest George Zimmerman despite his confession that he fatally shot Trayvon Martin because it was legally barred from doing so.

"Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony," Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. wrote in a letter released publicly Wednesday evening. "By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time."

The Sanford Police Department has received widespread criticism for its handling of the investigation. Among other issues, it didn't conduct a drug or alcohol test on Zimmerman, although that's standard practice in homicide probes, and a witness has said a police officer "corrected" her claim that she heard Martin yelling for help.

The letter goes on to address several other issues related to the case. Bonaparte Jr. writes that Zimmerman's failure to obey a 911 dispatcher's request that he not follow Martin can be taken into account in the ongoing investigation, but adds that the request "is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow."

Bonaparte Jr. appears to be saying that disobeying the order wasn't in itself a violation of law.

Bonaparte Jr. also addresses a claim made by Martin's father, Tracey Martin: that a law enforcement official told Tracey Martin that Zimmerman wasn't initially arrested because he had a squeaky clean image (in fact, Zimmerman had been charged in connection with assaulting a cop, though the charge was dropped).

Bonaparte Jr. writes that the official was merely telling Martin Sr. how Zimmerman had portrayed himself. "We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information," he adds.

"Let me assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community," Bonaparte Jr. writes.

You can read the full letter here.

The U.S. Justice Department and the state of Florida are conducting their own separate investigations into the killing, which has sparked nationwide outrage.

Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, was patrolling the streets of a gated community in Sanford on Feb. 26, when he spotted Martin, 17, and told a police dispatcher that a "black male" was acting "suspicious." Zimmerman, 28, ignored a warning from the dispatcher not to pursue Martin, and a violent confrontation ensued, leaving Martin dead. Zimmerman told local police he acted in self-defense, and he has not been detained or charged, though questions have been raised about the thoroughness of the police investigation.

[jaybet]

What the hell is a "white hispanic"?  Does that make TWO strikes against him?

[Solus]

What the hell is a "white hispanic"?  Does that make TWO strikes against him?

His name is Zimmerman...they could have gone with German/Hispanic and gotten another race card played against him.....not that he isn't due for a murder trial anyway

[twyacht]

Sanford Police Chief has stepped "aside",.....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/22/sanford-police-chief-steps-down-amid-outrage-over-shooting-death-teen/

Either way, remember the posts regarding the black on white assaults at the Wisconsin State Fair, the several incidents in Philly?

How about the "white boy" set on fire in Kansas City?

That was a 5 second news blurb.....Now they have the entire class of Carol City High School here in Miami, walk out in protest. (Trayvon attended this school)

did they mention Trayvon was thrown off the football team, and suspended from another school?

Didn't think so...

Wish this kind of intensity was had when the Black Panthers stood in front of a voting location armed with nightsticks.....

But I digress....

[Sponsor]

[Hazcat]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sanford-city-manager-says-were-barred-arresting-trayvon-134007644.html


The city of Sanford, Florida has claimed that it did not arrest George Zimmerman despite his confession that he fatally shot Trayvon Martin because it was legally barred from doing so.

"Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony," Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. wrote in a letter released publicly Wednesday evening. "By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time."

The Sanford Police Department has received widespread criticism for its handling of the investigation. Among other issues, it didn't conduct a drug or alcohol test on Zimmerman, although that's standard practice in homicide probes, and a witness has said a police officer "corrected" her claim that she heard Martin yelling for help.

The letter goes on to address several other issues related to the case. Bonaparte Jr. writes that Zimmerman's failure to obey a 911 dispatcher's request that he not follow Martin can be taken into account in the ongoing investigation, but adds that the request "is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow."

Bonaparte Jr. appears to be saying that disobeying the order wasn't in itself a violation of law.

Bonaparte Jr. also addresses a claim made by Martin's father, Tracey Martin: that a law enforcement official told Tracey Martin that Zimmerman wasn't initially arrested because he had a squeaky clean image (in fact, Zimmerman had been charged in connection with assaulting a cop, though the charge was dropped).

Bonaparte Jr. writes that the official was merely telling Martin Sr. how Zimmerman had portrayed himself. "We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information," he adds.

"Let me assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community," Bonaparte Jr. writes.

You can read the full letter here.

The U.S. Justice Department and the state of Florida are conducting their own separate investigations into the killing, which has sparked nationwide outrage.

Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, was patrolling the streets of a gated community in Sanford on Feb. 26, when he spotted Martin, 17, and told a police dispatcher that a "black male" was acting "suspicious." Zimmerman, 28, ignored a warning from the dispatcher not to pursue Martin, and a violent confrontation ensued, leaving Martin dead. Zimmerman told local police he acted in self-defense, and he has not been detained or charged, though questions have been raised about the thoroughness of the police investigation.

Bull pucky!  Just what part of the law prohibited the arrest?  (not saying there should have been one)  Also do the Sanford Police (I use the term VERY loosely) also say that the statue prohibited an investigation? 

Just a bunch of incompetent a-holes trying to cover their butts!

[twyacht]

Well now there is a witness that backs up Zimmerman's SD. He spoke to authorities the night of the incident, and was a factor in Zimmerman not being charged....

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT

ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

*****

More at link,.....Curiouser and Curiouser....Hmmmm......

[Solus]

Sure does...Curiouser and Curiouser.

If that is accepted as truth...which is fine since we are accepting most of what is reported as true...for this discussion..., the question becomes how did Zimmerman get close enough to the kid to grapple with him?

Unless the kid hid and waited to jump Zimmerman or doubled back and jumped him, Zimmerman is still on the hook if he knowing moved close enough to allow the confrontation.

[twyacht]

Your right Solus, this is turning into a cluster****, as the recently stepped down Chief of Police, could have quieted the masses by doing one of two things:

Arresting Zimmerman, having him bond out, and day in court.

or

A press conference, stating "we have evidence that Zimmerman was assaulted (facial injuries, and grass stains on his back), and it is under investigation.

The Sanford PD, interviewed the witness and made their determination not to charge Zimmerman. Right or wrong the bungling of PR and allowing it to escalate would have been better thwarted with some decent police statements, and decisive investigation.

OBTW, the "New" Black Panthers, have put a bounty on Zimmerman. Dead or Alive.....This too goes with no consequences....

We all know how Eric Holder, turns a blind eye to the Black Panthers....

So peaceful, and tolerant....

[MikeBjerum]

After being gone for almost a week I have skimmed this fast and may have missed something that I am now repeating.  I have read and heard about a lot of this case, the most important thing being that not everything is in or known yet!  I have even heard some of the statements concerning the final fight.  Bottom line is that the stand your ground is not a defense here for the following reason:

Mr. Zimmerman was not an unwilling participant.  He saw something suspicious, and he inserted himself into the situation. 

The other side is that once this fight started and if Mr. Martin had been the victor, Mr. Martin could have claimed protection under Stand Your Ground.  And, if he had truly been just passing through innocently he would have protection when he acted in fear of harm from a stalking potential attacker.  This would have also stood up in court, because Mr. Zimmerman was told by the 911 operator to quit following and wait for the police.

The bottom line is that everyone needs to step back and take a breath.  Mr. Zimmerman has not been charged, but that does not mean he won't be.  Just because they saw no immediate reason to detain or charge him to this point does not mean that it won't show up in an investigation that is just starting.  The sad thing is that regardless of Mr. Zimmerman's reasons for his actions, he has already been charged and convicted in the public courts of opinion.

P.S.
To all those screaming racism - On the 911 tape Mr. Zimmerman did not refer to race until asked by the 911 operator, he needed to check and then was not definite on the race, Mr. Zimmerman is a minority himself, and the FBI facts show that murder by race is highest black on black, followed by white on white, and a the bottom is 9% of murders are black on white, and 2% are white on black.  Now Mr. President, I really don't care if your son, had you had one, would have looked like Mr. Martin or not.  That is not a part of this case except to further your cause of creating turmoil and mistrust!