Federal .45 ACP Primer differences

[PegLeg45]

I believe several folks have posted this on the forum in the past, but since I have just run in to this this week, I thought I'd post it along with pictures.

Back at Christmas, I bought a couple of boxes of Federal 230gr FMJ "Champion" ammo at Wal-Mart. This past week, I bought another box with the same markings and such. When I got home, I noticed that there was a slight difference in the sizes of the two boxes, even though the product number and bullet info were the same. The newer box was bigger and felt like the old "standard' 50 count box of pistol ammo. I figured the company had just used the smaller packaging to save costs or something.

So.... just for giggles, I opened both boxed and noticed the major difference....... the ammo in the smaller box used small pistol primers (like in 9mm) and the rounds in the larger (standard) box had the normal large pistol primers.

I just wanted to post another heads-up for those that reload, who might pick up range brass. Getting the two cases mixed up in a batch might cause problems for a reloading machine de-capping die.

I have included photos below to show the side-by-side comparison.

The two boxes one on the other:


The end labels:


The sides....(note the warning about comps and ported barrels...and not for LEO use on the larger box ??):


In the trays:


Side-by-side close-up:

[Timothy]

What, if any affect will the smaller primer have on ignition and other characteristics?

[PegLeg45]

Shouldn't matter in the function...at least I wouldn't think it would. I'm gonna see shortly. I think I only have two boxes of the small primer ammo....so it will be shot up soon and the cases done away with. I will look closer at the boxes before purchases in the future. Too much aggravation to keep them separate.

[GASPASSERDELUXE]

Performance wise it won't make any difference. Money wise the ammo company will save a little on the cost. They will reduce there primer inventory by only useing small primers.
On the reloading side it will be a pain in the ass. I have started checking all my range p/u .45 auto brass looking for small cases primers. So far there only have been a few but I'm sure there will be more and more.
















they will

[tombogan03884]

The smaller primers are usually "non Toxic" .
Most company's note that on the head stamp.

[Sponsor]

[alfsauve]

Actually it can make a big difference.

There is something around  30%  less "spitz'n and spark'n" with small primers than with larger.  Also the flash hole is smaller exposing less of the powder to the initial ignition.   In addition, there is  a problem with the smaller primers backing out in the larger cases so Federal has been crimping them.   

The current issue (March/April 2012)  of Front Sight from USPSA has a timely article by Guy Neil on the topic.  (sorry not available on-line.)

Reloaders might consider enlarging the flash hole. And they definitely need to do separate load development for small primer cases and not assume the loads with large primer are okay.

As for me, they go in the recycle bin.

[Timothy]

Not being a reloader, I would think they could be a huge problem if you were to accidentally try and press a lpp into the smaller hole.  Wouldn't it potentially ignite the larger primer and make a "bang"!

I wouldn't want to hear a "bang" in the presence of gun powder and primers on my bench...

[ellis4538]

Timothy, I have run into a lot of .45 cases w/spp!  One of the most important rules of reloading that has been drilled into me is..."If you have to use more pressure than normal during any reloading operation STOP!!!  Check to see if something is wrong and correct it if possible."  With my Dillon 550 I can tell right away if the case is for spp.  It even has a different feel, to me, than a pp w/crimp.  It might not work that way for everyone.

FWIW


Richard

[Pecos Bill]

The small pistol primers take up less space in the case so that Federal can use a smaller box! Saves on packaging and transportation costs.

Actually I ran across this a couple years ago with some CCI cases. Called CCI and was told they were using these in some target ammo but had no future plans to do so. Haven't seen any lately but get the question occasionally. Nobody seems to notice till they try to reload them. Segregate them if you want or turn them into scrape brass. No big deal.

Pecos

[Solus]

The small pistol primers take up less space in the case so that Federal can use a smaller box! Saves on packaging and transportation costs.

Actually I ran across this a couple years ago with some CCI cases. Called CCI and was told they were using these in some target ammo but had no future plans to do so. Haven't seen any lately but get the question occasionally. Nobody seems to notice till they try to reload them. Segregate them if you want or turn them into scrape brass. No big deal.

Pecos

If you weren't joking, Pecos, it's just not true.  The outside case dimension must stay exactly the same or the round won't chamber properly.

The smaller box size was due to the use of a cartridge tray with thinner walls.