Flash Mob Attacks

[MikeBjerum]

I have spoken in my classes, in public, and in private concerning flash mobs.  I have stated for the record that I will not tolerate them, and I will not stand for them.  Force will be measured based on the mob activity, but there will be action to protect myself and those in my charge.  I have been called virtually every name imaginable concerning this view.  Do you think I will hear from those that accuse and degrade me now that this is public?

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/144394085.html

A sudden, random attack on a group of bicyclists on Nicollet Mall kicked off a melee early Friday evening that had police pursuing 15 to 20 youths who assaulted two men, rioted at a restaurant patio and eventually fled, according to court documents.

The event unfolded right in front of police officers who were patrolling the pedestrian thoroughfare after "numerous, recent 'flash mobs' of individuals engaging in criminal conduct," according to a criminal complaint.

The other incidents that had police patrolling the street were not described in the complaint, but authorities said they've prompted more surveillance of the busy sidewalks of Nicollet Mall.

In Friday's incident, police officers were monitoring seven youths at a bus stop near the intersection of S. 5th Street and Nicollet Mall, when they saw them "suddenly surge" toward a group of three bicyclists. The youths knocked one man to the ground and broke his jaw. They surrounded another man and beat him.

As officers gave chase, the group fled to a nearby restaurant patio, where one of them picked up a glass candelabra and threw it at one of the bicyclists, missing him.

The officers captured Antonio D. Jones, 20, of Brooklyn Park. He was charged Monday in Hennepin County District Court with felony fifth-degree drug possession, gross-misdemeanor third-degree riot and misdemeanor fifth-degree assault. Officers also arrested three juveniles, ages 15, 16 and 17, for probable cause aggravated robbery.

MATT MCKINNEY

[Timothy]

No!

The hairs have stood on the back of my neck for some time now.  I went to get some milk tonight and before I left I donned my holster and my .38.  My wife asked why....when I got back, I showed her a few videos on youtube....

She won't ask again....

[santahog]

"... and all the children are above average"..

[MikeBjerum]

"... and all the children are above average"..

In Lake Wobegon.  Not so much in the seven county metro area.

[lhprop1]

And that is why I refuse to step foot in Minnecrapolis. 

[Sponsor]

[MikeBjerum]

And that is why I refuse to step foot in Minnecrapolis. 

We don't always have a choice, and this isn't the only place it happens.  Actually, they probably happen less here, except for the Mall of America, than most other places in this failing nation.

With the advances in electronic communications, I expect the flash mob to be the tool of choice as compared to 1968's riots through out the nation.

[twyacht]

On another post, I reported a band of 50-60 "youths" ransacked a Walgreens, in North Miami Beach, as they were walking out of their H.S. classes in "honor" of Trayvon Martin.

Although no patrons were harmed, and just merchandise was the target, I have a question for m58:

If it was you in that Walgreens, and 50-60 teenagers are ransacking the merchandise, would you have a life threatening scenario worthy of shooting?

Just askin'....Because I would've had to be there, and I am not sure what I would do. If they are taking stuff but ignoring me, I would probably lock myself in the mens room, with the pistol in my hand, if I couldn't make it out safely. However, I understand a direct confrontation would lead to another outcome.

[MikeBjerum]

TW,

One of those subjective situations that is hard to duplicate in a forum situation.  However based on your scenario, I would be very loud about defining "my space;" I would go with the restroom idea you mention if available; I would defend the restroom as my safe space; if forced from an area with multiple escape routes to an area such as a corner, I would be prepared to use deadly force since the retreat option would have been removed; and above all, my firearm, or other weapon, would be deployed but hidden (note many Best Defense lessons on gun or knife in hand but in armpit or under garment.

I do not see what took place in this business as automatically dangerous and deadly, but it is on the edge that it takes very little to turn deadly.  I wouldn't want to deploy any tool that would ignite the powder keg, but I also would not want to be left without options if it turned bloody.

It is situations like this that remind us all that there is no perfect answer.  It is totally subjective and subject to Monday morning quarterbacking.  All we can do is study, practice, discuss and debate in places like this, and be alert.

One thing to keep in mind is that I play Walt Rauch's "be gristle" to its perfect level.  I am 6'1", 300#, full beard, and a booming voice that is not only very distinct, but if it doesn't demand respect it at least demands attention.  When I am on the street and someone "invades my space" I can clear a crowded sidewalk with my command to stop or back off.  Not everyone can defend their space with their voice and stature like I can, but I can teach almost anyone how to use their "big boy (or girl) voice."  Once I moved my way from Unconscious unaware, to conscious unaware, to conscious aware, and finally to unconscious aware, the best tool in my self defense arsenal is my ability to command through vocalizations and body language.  Once again, easy for someone with my biologic makeup, but learnable by anyone.

[twyacht]

Thanks m58....We're on the same page, with the same mindset, in a situation with too many variables that are fluid and distinct for a definitive answer. I know you teach about such matters, and am simply gathering insight from all here to keep in the ol brain rolodex for the "what if" scenarios we might encounter.

A bunch of teenagers raiding portable cameras, skittles, and merchandise, based on the video; were not intent on bodily injury to Mrs. "Jones" picking up her prescription..or other patrons in the store.....Therefore, they should not be shot.

I'm not an advocate of a duty to retreat per se, but a bunch of school kids not threatening my body or family is a big factor. Hell, I'll backhand them before a lethal encounter.

Thanks again for the insight and knowledge m58.

tw

[Pathfinder]

Mike, generally I agree with everything you said - except the "not dangerous" part. The mob in Walgreen's was already dangerous, but it was not deadly. As MB talked about last week and today in the podcast, that situation in Walgreen's is a chaos system and once it starts you cannot know where it is going to go. But it has started, and at this precise moment it is only about Skittles. Five seconds from now it might be about some random "whitey".

You are absolutely correct about not wanting to be the spark that turns them on whitey, but if three or four "youts" ala Trayvon come down the aisle at me, that is a unfavorable disparity of force for me - I am a good 5" shorter than you and lack the dominating beard thing. I am not a cop, so I will not attempt to stop the larceny, and I will retreat or take concealment away from the Skittles aisle, as best I can, but I will be prepared as you said to escalate to self-defense as quickly as I can.