Non adjustable scope

[Solus]

Tom, inquiring minds want to know.  What .308?

Winchester    snicker 

[tombogan03884]

Tom, inquiring minds want to know.  What .308?

Thinking either AR or M 1A.

[les snyder]

Tom... had an M1A and currently a 16" AR10...if you have good eyes and can shoot open sights, the classic M1A is fun... if you plan on adding optics, go with the Picatinny rail on an AR style....Armalite uses proprietary magazines, and they are not that expensive (5 for $150 or so IIRC)  some manufacturers use FAL metric mags or M14 mags...both the Armalite and Springfield have pretty good triggers....I shoot mostly AR style carbines so that is what I chose...

the AR10 got the old 4x32 ACOG, and haven't shot it past 100m yet...think I'll add a full float tube to it, so it matches the other carbines in the safe....as you commented earlier the stadia lines may not match perfectly , but can be used to approximate elevation...I'll gain a little bit of correction if I mentally convert the meter distances to yards (I think)

[tombogan03884]

This is a project I'm thinking through for the unforeseeable future.
I like the AR's "drop free" magazines, and simplicity.
on the down side, if you are using a sling supported position a tight sling will flex the barrel.
The M-1A on the other hand allows you to switch between sling supported, or sand bags with out changing point of impact because the sling attaches to the stock, not the barrel.
Otherwise, I have no real preference between the 2.

[Big Frank]

A free float tube solves the problem of barrel flex with a tight sling.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

A free float tube solves the problem of barrel flex with a tight sling.

How so ?
Isn't it still attached by the receiver,/ barrel joint ?

[les snyder]

 AR forend full float installation...
one installation (ARMS) is to remove the spring loaded delta ring from the factory barrel nut, and sandwich the forend (M1913 rails)  to the flat of the barrel nut

others replace the barrel nut with one that is threaded forward so the forend can screw on

others have the barrel nut typically chemically glued to the tube and the whole tube is threaded  on

they do mount to the front of the receiver.... since the sling swivels attach to the tube, no lateral pressure is applied to the barrel,  and there are no bearing points in contact with the barrel forward of the barrel nut so there is no "gooseneck" pressure applied as the bullet travels thru the barrel ...

my first A1 with a clip on GI bipod would "bend" about 2' at 200m

my current 16" flat top with full float is pretty consistent with moa groups out to 400m.... the barrel is pretty stiff for its short length

[tombogan03884]

AR forend full float installation...
one installation (ARMS) is to remove the spring loaded delta ring from the factory barrel nut, and sandwich the forend (M1913 rails)  to the flat of the barrel nut

others replace the barrel nut with one that is threaded forward so the forend can screw on

others have the barrel nut typically chemically glued to the tube and the whole tube is threaded  on

they do mount to the front of the receiver.... since the sling swivels attach to the tube, no lateral pressure is applied to the barrel,  and there are no bearing points in contact with the barrel forward of the barrel nut so there is no "gooseneck" pressure applied as the bullet travels thru the barrel ...

my first A1 with a clip on GI bipod would "bend" about 2' at 200m

my current 16" flat top with full float is pretty consistent with moa groups out to 400m.... the barrel is pretty stiff for its short length

OK, understood .
I'm not really interested in using a bipod, however, I want to ask about the bend you experienced with yours.
1) Was it attached to the stock, or the barrel ?
2) was it consistent that you could allow for with scope settings, or did it vary depending on shooting position ?

[les snyder]

Tom... the barrel bending was on my first AR about 1984, and I usually clipped it on between the legs of the front sight tower...it was a thinner barrel AR pre HBAR... we shot on a metallic silhouette range, and shot 10" plates at 200m...all I had for a scope was the Colt 3x on the carry handle, but I could watch the bullet strike from below the rail when the rifle was resting on the forearm, to over to top of the target when pressure was applied to the bipod...never really did any scientific study of the sling, it was a standard factory item, and always thought it was attached in the wrong place.... I traded that rifle in on my first M1A, and ruined a beautiful piece of walnut forend when I went prone with a Harris bipod attached and broke out the wood.... shot the M1A iron sights only... did not shoot much with slings in the early years, as most matches were were relatively close, or had good support positions

my current game rifle (carbine) is fitted with a Knights vertical grip that I use all the time as a monopod, but it is attached to a lone rail on the bottom of the full float tube... I had a good run at the 2009 Ft Benning 3gun sniper stage with a 12th place finish, using a hasty sling and the monopod...the really tough shots at Ft Benning are the standing, unsupported head shots at 75yards... the sling was designed by a friend, and is a 3 point that allows you safely drop the carbine and transition to a pistol if necessary....It falls across your chest without pointing at anything important... I attached the sling with an Uncle Mikes sling swivel to the left side of the full float tube ....for local matches, my short range carbine does not have a sling, too much opportunity to snag it on things, and we shoot awfully close distances on pistol ranges

[tombogan03884]

Thanks Les.