Author Topic: Antique musket  (Read 4122 times)

lhprop1

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Antique musket
« on: April 08, 2012, 09:59:57 PM »
I recently acquired this old musket.  I was hoping someone could help me identify it.  As you can see, it's in worse than horrible condition, but I'm a history nut and I'd love to know what it is.  Unfortunately, the only markings on it that I can make out are "New Hartford, CONN" above the trigger.  Immediately above that is a 6 or 7 letter word that ends in 'RANT'.  It could be Warrant, Tarrant, or anything like that.  It also has a stamping of an eagle with 2 arrows in one talon and an olive branch in the other talon.  Near the butt plate, a previous owner had inscribed 1840 into the wood.





Bravery and stupidity are often synonymous.  So are cowardice and intelligence.

"We Americans have been a rebellious band of freedom loving vagabonds from the very beginning. Our freedom from the crown and tyranny would not exist had it not been for the gun. That's a tradition we like to hold on to.  The same can't be said for the rest of you 'Subjects of the Queen'."--said to a Canadian friend who just doesn't get it.

BAC

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Re: Antique flintlock
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 10:47:02 PM »
I'm no expert, but I think it's a caplock, not a flintlock.  So it would use a percussion cap for ignition instead of flint.

lhprop1

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Re: Antique flintlock
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 10:20:25 AM »
I'm no expert, but I think it's a caplock, not a flintlock.  So it would use a percussion cap for ignition instead of flint.


Yeah, you're right. 
Bravery and stupidity are often synonymous.  So are cowardice and intelligence.

"We Americans have been a rebellious band of freedom loving vagabonds from the very beginning. Our freedom from the crown and tyranny would not exist had it not been for the gun. That's a tradition we like to hold on to.  The same can't be said for the rest of you 'Subjects of the Queen'."--said to a Canadian friend who just doesn't get it.

PegLeg45

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Re: Antique musket
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 11:28:54 AM »
Looks kinda like a Springfield, but the fancy trigger guard is throwing me off....can't find matching photo...my google-fu is weak today.


I did find a photo of a Hawken Plains rifle that was close, but still off. It could have been custom made.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Guide_to_Muzzleloaders
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

Timothy

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Re: Antique musket
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 11:32:48 AM »
Variations of the eagle with arrows and olive branch were quite popular in the 1840's as representing the Great Seal.  Why only two arrows vs thirteen is curious.

Sponsor

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Re: Antique musket
« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:03:21 AM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Antique musket
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 01:12:13 PM »
Variations of the eagle with arrows and olive branch were quite popular in the 1840's as representing the Great Seal.  Why only two arrows vs thirteen is curious.

Sounds more like a company logo, since the stock is to short for any military rifles I can think of.

lhprop1

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Re: Antique musket
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 02:17:33 PM »
Looks kinda like a Springfield, but the fancy trigger guard is throwing me off....can't find matching photo...my google-fu is weak today.

I did find a photo of a Hawken Plains rifle that was close, but still off. It could have been custom made.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Guide_to_Muzzleloaders

The trigger guard is what's throwing me off, too.  

The more I think about it and look at other period guns, the more I think it may have been a custom job.  The inscription on the receiver plate ???RANT may have been the mark of an individual gunsmith or owner of the gun.  Maybe his name was J. Durant or something.  If it was a custom job, that would explain his name and city on the receiver plate.

As for the eagle with only 2 arrows, is it possible that it was made pre-revolution and therefore had no official "Great Seal" to base it off of?  
Bravery and stupidity are often synonymous.  So are cowardice and intelligence.

"We Americans have been a rebellious band of freedom loving vagabonds from the very beginning. Our freedom from the crown and tyranny would not exist had it not been for the gun. That's a tradition we like to hold on to.  The same can't be said for the rest of you 'Subjects of the Queen'."--said to a Canadian friend who just doesn't get it.

twyacht

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Re: Antique musket
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 03:01:49 PM »
Maybe? A variation, as it's stamped/engraved 1840. This is really close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Bess

Brown Bess is a nickname of uncertain origin for the British Army's Land Pattern Musket and its derivatives.
This musket was used in the era of the expansion of the British Empire and acquired symbolic importance at least as significant as its physical importance. It was in use for over a hundred years with many incremental changes in its design. These versions include the Long Land Pattern, Short Land Pattern, India Pattern, New Land Pattern Musket, Sea Service Musket and others.

The Long Land Pattern musket and its derivatives, all .75 caliber flintlock muskets, were the standard long guns of the British Empire's land forces from 1722 until 1838 when they were superseded by a percussion cap smoothbore musket. The British Ordnance System converted many flintlocks into the new percussion system known as the Pattern 1839 Musket. A fire in 1841 at the Tower of London destroyed many muskets before they could be converted. Still, the Brown Bess saw service until the middle of the nineteenth century. Some were used by Maori warriors during the Musket Wars 1820s-1830s, having purchased them from European traders at the time, some were still in service during the Indian rebellion of 1857, and also by Zulu warriors, who had also purchased them from European traders during the Anglo-Zulu War in 1879, and some were sold to the Mexican Army who used them during the Texas Revolution of 1836 and the Mexican-American War of 1846 to 1848. One was even used in the Battle of Shiloh in 1862.[1]

More at link., Including lengths and specs and pics.. Could be a version that had a fancier trig. guard. Would need some close ups of the eagle, and other markings to try to chase down more.

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Col. Jeff Cooper.

PegLeg45

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Re: Antique musket
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 03:28:45 PM »
Yes, I thought about the Bess also....but the trigger guard again throws things off. Along with slight variations in the side plates.
Of course, those guys back in the day were also just as apt to cobble modifications just like we do today.
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

lhprop1

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Re: Antique musket
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 03:33:24 PM »
The eagle stamping would hint at it not being a limey bang stick.  If the gun was in one piece, the eagle would have been at the base of the barrel completely covered by the forearm.  Why would they tinker and modify something like that if it wasn't readily visible?
Bravery and stupidity are often synonymous.  So are cowardice and intelligence.

"We Americans have been a rebellious band of freedom loving vagabonds from the very beginning. Our freedom from the crown and tyranny would not exist had it not been for the gun. That's a tradition we like to hold on to.  The same can't be said for the rest of you 'Subjects of the Queen'."--said to a Canadian friend who just doesn't get it.

 

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