Stamped/Milled & What is the differance between an $800 and $1700 rifle?

[Lucas]

What are the actuall diferances between a stamped and milled reciever?  I dont really know the differance it has on the rifle.  I am looking at the last and only assault rilfe/rifles I will buy.  I own several other guns but have the chance to spend about $1700 dollars on "assault rifle goodness".  As I see this as my last chance to buy an assault rifle I want everything but I want something that will last me for the rest of my life.  I am looking at buying one exspensive rifle or two mid-range.  Not sure what to do,  its driving me crazy.  So I look to you in my time of need!

[Bill Stryker]

I'm happy with my Rock River AR. 16" SS barrel flat top with mid length hand guard and gas block. About $1000.oo the way mine was setup at Camp Perry commercial row last year.
I like it so much that I am going to get another at Camp Perry this year. Looking at either an upper in .223 with a 20" barrel for target shooting or a whole new rifle in .243 or .260 for deer hunting.
BTW I hated the M16 when I was in Vietnam and for the next 20+ years that I was in the Army.  But the new ones seem to be much better, or I am just less picky because no one is shooting back at me.
I was/am no fan of the AKs either. The ARs are more accurate and have lots going for them now, but they need to be run clean and oiled. The AKs are not very accurate [thank goodness] but they run for ever with no care.
I am a fan of the M1 & M2 Carbine, but not for hunting. I carried an M2 mostly in Vietnam and only had one failure to feed all year. That was because I was fighting from a hay stack at the time and straw got into the breach area. The M2 is actually a great little assault rifle. I was talking to some Korean War vets today who said the same thing. My uncle who was an armored infantry officer in WWII carried an M1 Carbine for part of the war as well.

[tombogan03884]

I'm happy with my Rock River AR. 16" SS barrel flat top with mid length hand guard and gas block. About $1000.oo the way mine was setup at Camp Perry commercial row last year.
I like it so much that I am going to get another at Camp Perry this year. Looking at either an upper in .223 with a 20" barrel for target shooting or a whole new rifle in .243 or .260 for deer hunting.
BTW I hated the M16 when I was in Vietnam and for the next 20+ years that I was in the Army.  But the new ones seem to be much better, or I am just less picky because no one is shooting back at me.
I was/am no fan of the AKs either. The ARs are more accurate and have lots going for them now, but they need to be run clean and oiled. The AKs are not very accurate [thank goodness] but they run for ever with no care.
I am a fan of the M1 & M2 Carbine, but not for hunting. I carried an M2 mostly in Vietnam and only had one failure to feed all year. That was because I was fighting from a hay stack at the time and straw got into the breach area. The M2 is actually a great little assault rifle. I was talking to some Korean War vets today who said the same thing. My uncle who was an armored infantry officer in WWII carried an M1 Carbine for part of the war as well.

AR's have gotten better in several ways, 40 years of practice, differant barrel twist rate are the ones I can think of at 3:30 am ALSO, you are more experienced and less picky as no one is trying to kill you.
AK's are accurate enough for defense and range shooting, it was never intended as a Sniper or varmint rifle, but its fine for something like hunting.
M 1 Carbine IS a fun little rifle, fine for game smaller than deer but the penitration of the round stinks, comes out second best to a 9mm. But don't I wish someone would make one in .357 !

[addict]

Regarding AK's, the milled receiver was the original conformation. With full auto fire, they can become brittle and crack. They also require a lot of resources and then machining time to make and are not very efficient. The later stamped receivers are cheap and quick to make. They are also lighter in the final product. They flex under FA fire and do not get the cracking problems the milled versions have. Fired semi auto, the only liability of the milled version is the weight and the expense. No benefit other than being able to say you have a milled AK .
Consider the new Russian made sporter AK from Izmach. You can get a7.62 and .556 for ~280 each and a .308 for 450. If you want more, get a shotgun in the mid 400's as well.
Long live the stamped AK

Many surplus AK's are made from shot out military rifles and brought over to be rebuilt on semiauto receivers. They may or may not give acceptable accuracy. The  new factory sporters are great! I shot a 3 gun match vs several AK's a SKS  about 8 AR's  and an M1 Garand 2 weeks ago. Rifle 10 shots 1 minute at 200 and 100 yards. I beat everyone except the guy with the Garand and he had the whole DCM setup while I flopped prone in the mud. AK does not necessarily equal inaccurate!
Addict

[2HOW]

ADDICT, I hear what your saying but a milled rifle is far superior to a stamped. True there are some goog stamped AKs ,I have 1 , but there are more bad stamped AKs than milled. Take the single stack Rommys that are cut up to accept a double stack magazine. Many more examples than just that. Lets remember we are usually talking about semi fire. And value is 4 fold in a milled rifle.

[Sponsor]

[Lucas]

So what are the good stamped ones?  I am currently looking at a Bulgarian from Arsenal Inc.,  I have heard good things but "measure twice,  cut once". 

Also,  I know that you get what you pay for,  but is there a couple of solid platforms (AK & AR,  for around $800 a piece)  that you could eventually build into the same quality as you would get from a higher end rifle? 

[tombogan03884]

So what are the good stamped ones?  I am currently looking at a Bulgarian from Arsenal Inc.,  I have heard good things but "measure twice,  cut once". 

Also,  I know that you get what you pay for,  but is there a couple of solid platforms (AK & AR,  for around $800 a piece)  that you could eventually build into the same quality as you would get from a higher end rifle? 

Go ahead and get the stamped receiver, Any benifit that a milled receiver MAY give you is more than off set by savings in weight and cash, Despite the opinions expressed here,The loose tolerances that keep an AK going when EVERYTHING else has jammed will not allow the differance between milled or stamped reciever to make a bit of differance. Addict is wrong when he states that the original configuration of the AK consisted of a milled receiver, Mikhail Kalishnokov designed the rifle in a hospital at the end of WWII when ALL available foundry space was being devoted to Tanks and Cannon, so prevailing wisdom decreed that all firearms should utilize as many stamped and welded parts as possible, just like the US M3 Grease gun, British Sten/ Sterling, German MP 38/40 and StG 44, and the Australian Austen firearms.  A fair price for a run of the mill AK would be $500- $600 that will serve as well as the overpriced ones unless you get a Krebs. As I said before, the tolerances to which AK's are built and the theory in the design do not lend themselves to super accuracy, If you want a Benchrest semi auto get an M1A, If you want to hit Deer or siluhettes at 100 to 200 yards most AK's will do the job, for that matter you could get an SKS for under $300 and customize it to your liking to do the same thing for the same money as a basic AK.

[addict]

2HOW, I sure wouldn't kick a milled rifle out of bed!  I just don't think the extra weight and cost offer benefits commensurate with the price differential.
Romanian rifles single or double stack are the Hi Points of the black rifle world. I have one for the collection, but it is not well made, and I would not recommend one.
Arsenal makes a good rifle. The finish is poor and some folks have had trouble with the trigger group breaking. I believe Arsenal is responsive to customer service complaints, but with an 800+$ rifle, I don't think there should be such problems.

Tom, I will have to defer to your greater wisdom. I base all my knowledge on the AK47 to AKM to AK74 and 100 series rifle on a class taught by a Russian immigrant. Perhaps he is running a misinformation campaign.

Another choice for a good factory milled rifle is the VZ 58 from CZ. The mags are not a ubiquitous as the AK and a bit more expensive, but they are beautifully made, light, handy rifles.
Addict 

[tombogan03884]

I bought an Inter Ordnance StG-2000, www.ioinc.us  Paid $475  Plastic stock is OK but the hand guards seem kind of Cheesy, however, it comes with a Tapco trigger thats about the best I've ever had on ANY rifle.
Addict, you've probably heard enough BS in gun stores and at the range to know that some people will spout any crap to make a buckski     Years ago I had to do a researched, footnoted report for a business class, I did it on the AK series, and had to come up with this stuff for research.
As for the VZ 58, I've never handled one but CZ has had an OUTSTANDING reputation since the  30's. Part of the reason Hitler took Checkoslavakia was to get access to their arms industry.

That countries name isn't in my spell check 

[2HOW]

I bought a Romanian from classic arms, and it has been flawless. I believe they still have some good ones for sale you can look at on their site. I would also suggest the "tantel" in 545x39 dirt cheap ammo and a good weapon. Tell tale signs on pickng a good one is look it over, especially the gas tube, and excess tool marks around the mag well and tolerances with mag inserted. http://www.lifelibertyetc.com/RangeBag.aspx
scroll down for the AK field strip videos. this may help you decide.