Author Topic: Off center suppressor  (Read 16981 times)

tombogan03884

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Off center suppressor
« on: May 15, 2012, 10:11:02 AM »
In MB's Blog post for today,

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2012/05/trs-silencer.html

There is a photo of a suppressed Winchester 1894.
I notice that the suppressor is set off center to avoid blocking the sights.
I thought they needed to be centered for proper performance ?
If not, then why not do that with all of them ?

Pecos Bill

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 05:54:52 PM »
Probably because if the suppressor is not lined up correctly the shot is thrown off. Dad's uncle had one like that and if it was not set correctly the shot would be off. This was on a 22 with a non-threaded barrel. Uncle used it for squirrel hunting with shorts and all you could hear from about 10 ft. away was the firing pin snapping home.

Pecos
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Solus

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 06:50:40 PM »
The "bore" of the suppressor doesn't have be run along the center line of the "can" but it has to be in line with the bore of the firearm to insure accuracy.

Having the suppressor "bore" in the center of the can gives optimal gas dispersion equally in all directions.  If the "bore is offset, it will make the sights usable, but complicate the internal design to provide the needed volume of dispersion with the top side being limited.

That is my guess any way  ;D ;D ;D
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tombogan03884

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 08:24:53 PM »
Probably because if the suppressor is not lined up correctly the shot is thrown off. Dad's uncle had one like that and if it was not set correctly the shot would be off. This was on a 22 with a non-threaded barrel. Uncle used it for squirrel hunting with shorts and all you could hear from about 10 ft. away was the firing pin snapping home.

Pecos

Reading Solus's post made me realize My first post was badly worded.
The bore of the suppressor was significantly off the centerline of the can itself while still being parallel to the long axis of the can .
     

Rastus

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2012, 06:36:20 AM »
Reading Solus's post made me realize My first post was badly worded.
The bore of the suppressor was significantly off the centerline of the can itself while still being parallel to the long axis of the can .
     

Spoken like a true machinest! 

AAC had an "oblong" can under development for pistol calibers.  I don't know if it will ever go anywhere with the change in management.....
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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:45:47 PM »

philw

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2012, 06:52:25 AM »
Spoken like a true machinest! 

AAC had an "oblong" can under development for pistol calibers.  I don't know if it will ever go anywhere with the change in management.....


lol lucky you did not say owner operator   (ops I did hehe :P )


I would of always thought as long as the bore is inline the rest of the can should not matter...
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Solus

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2012, 11:16:50 AM »

lol lucky you did not say owner operator   (ops I did hehe :P )


I would of always thought as long as the bore is inline the rest of the can should not matter...

There could be some concerns.  About 90 degrees of gas dispersion area above the bore doesn't exist any more.  That is 25%.  The design will need to deal with that uneven venting.  

Manufacturing concers arise as the baffles are no longer symmetric and alignment will be more critical during assembly and welding.

Also, this might introduce a heat problem at the top of the can...but I don't know enough to know if it would be any worse than the top of the barrel before the can or if it would affect anything.  I guess it could be cooler on top with no hot gases being directed that way....but then the other areas might need to be modified to deal with the increased heat load.

The  first two shouldn't affect performance or accuracy, assuming the problems they cause are able to be compensated 100%.  They will increase the cost of the product though.
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Magoo541

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2012, 02:08:50 PM »
There could be some concerns.  About 90 degrees of gas dispersion area above the bore doesn't exist any more.  That is 25%.  The design will need to deal with that uneven venting.  
Ever seen the guts of a monolithic suppressor.  Gasses take all kinds of paths out of the bore.

Manufacturing concerns arise as the baffles are no longer symmetric and alignment will be more critical during assembly and welding.
It depends on the method of manufacturing.  Like the monolith mentioned above it is easy to EDM a block  to fit inside a tube with non-symmetrical cuts and quicker to manufacture/assemble than multiple components stacked in a conventional suppressor.
Also, this might introduce a heat problem at the top of the can...but I don't know enough to know if it would be any worse than the top of the barrel before the can or if it would affect anything.  I guess it could be cooler on top with no hot gases being directed that way....but then the other areas might need to be modified to deal with the increased heat load.

The  first two shouldn't affect performance or accuracy, assuming the problems they cause are able to be compensated 100%.  They will increase the cost of the product though.

Again it depends on methods of manufacturing (CNC Lathe, EDM Wire, CNC Mill or, my favorite, manually machines), economy of scale (not much to gain here anymore when Lean Manufacturing principles are properly applied) and materials used (Ti vs. 316 SS vs 7071 AL). 

I am intrigued in the design differences and I am approaching it from a machinist/manufacturing aspect but I may have to model this up in Solid Works and run the physical simulation on it to see if what we think matches what the computer thinks.
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tombogan03884

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2012, 02:14:45 PM »
Ever seen the guts of a monolithic suppressor.  Gasses take all kinds of paths out of the bore.
It depends on the method of manufacturing.  Like the monolith mentioned above it is easy to EDM a block  to fit inside a tube with non-symmetrical cuts and quicker to manufacture/assemble than multiple components stacked in a conventional suppressor.
Again it depends on methods of manufacturing (CNC Lathe, EDM Wire, CNC Mill or, my favorite, manually machines), economy of scale (not much to gain here anymore when Lean Manufacturing principles are properly applied) and materials used (Ti vs. 316 SS vs 7071 AL). 

I am intrigued in the design differences and I am approaching it from a machinist/manufacturing aspect but I may have to model this up in Solid Works and run the physical simulation on it to see if what we think matches what the computer thinks.

It would be very interesting to some of us to see what you get for results.

Magoo541

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Re: Off center suppressor
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2012, 02:39:09 PM »
It would be very interesting to some of us to see what you get for results.
Traveling all next week with my Mechanical engineer and a service guy, I'll see if one of them has SolidWorks on their laptop.  Anyone have a link handy to a pic of the internals by chance?
He who dares wins.  SAS

 

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