Is this as stupid as it sounds ?

[tombogan03884]

Joe,
You seem to know your stuff and have no patience with the fools.
 Would you like to talk a bit about Carl Sagan's "Nuclear Winter"  
In short it was KGB disinformation aimed at keeping US "Intermediate range Nuke missiles out of Germany.

[crusader rabbit]

 ...I can never get them to understand that you simply can't model something as complex as global weather the way they are pretending to do it. You have to give them credit, they have stood science on its head and demand that people prove them wrong instead of their having to prove their theory right. Everybody just nods their heads.

These experts can't tell you for certain if it's gonna rain on Thursday, but they claim to know what's going to happen 50 years out.  In a pig's eye, says I.

My 2 Cents,

Crusader

[Timothy]

These experts can't tell you for certain if it's gonna rain on Thursday, but they claim to know what's going to happen 50 years out.  In a pig's eye, says I.

My 2 Cents,

Crusader

It's gonna to rain on Thursday....count on it!

offered with no scientific evidence to support my position.  It's a gut thing, you'll understand......

ps....I lived in Florida for a time...

[tombogan03884]

Thing is, the first ones to keep any kind of world wide weather records were the British Admiralty.
They started keeping weather records based on the Logs of British ships around 1700 - 1750.
So the only documentary evidence only goes back 400 years or less.
Weather cycles take thousands of years.
And those "Ice core samples" and other so called "physical evidence" ?
Crap.
Levels of carbon and other things in ice are effected by outside contamination.
Look at the recent Volcano's that shut down air travel between Europe and the US.

[Timothy]

Thing is, the first ones to keep any kind of world wide weather records were the British Admiralty.
They started keeping weather records based on the Logs of British ships around 1700 - 1750.
So the only documentary evidence only goes back 400 years or less.
Weather cycles take thousands of years.
And those "Ice core samples" and other so called "physical evidence" ?
Crap.
Levels of carbon and other things in ice are effected by outside contamination.
Look at the recent Volcano's that shut down air travel between Europe and the US.

As well as negating the last thirty years of recycling efforts of the entire world population!

Mother nature is a fickle bitch!

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

Here is a link to a graph of Earth temps for the past 2000 years...by what ever means were available.

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2008/02/11/a-2000-year-global-temperature-record/

Note that there was a high point well above our current point around 1000.   Also note there is a low point around 1800...which is known as The Little Ice Age.  The temperature has been generally rising since that point.  

Also note that Al Gore's chart started at that low point and the following rise is used to demonstrate the Global Warming Crisis and ignoring the preceding part of the graph that disproves human activity as a cause of global temperature change.  

Not shown is the graph of where the GW proponents show the Earth's temperature to be in 400 years, the projected peak of Global Warming.  That peak is just a bit below the peak around year 1000.  

Either the Earth's temps are running at a natural cycle or the folks in 1000 BC had a completely undetected high carbon producing industrial base but managed to get it under control and reverse it's effects.

Also note that the counterparts of the GW crowd were warning of impending doom from cataclysmic drops in the Earth's temps in the 1960's.  

The temps may be rising, but very little can be attributed to human activity.  If this is so, we need to not be spending massive resources to curb human activity, which will only change the 400 year peak projection by a small fraction, but rather on adapting to the natural fluctuation of the Earth's temp.  Build dikes, put houses on stilts or whatever works in an area, but don't waste those resources on buying carbon footprint reduction measures from an industry in which Al Gore is heavily invested. 

[tombogan03884]

Eighteen hundred and froze to death,
In 1816 Albany NY had a frost on June 6,
Rivers and lakes had ice in July and August as far South as Pennsylvania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

[JoeG]

The funny part about this is that there was a great paper published in Science mag back in the 80's right around the time this all started called the Variable Sun. The researchers did a great job of matching various temperature measures for the last 2000 years against solar storm intensity and got a beautiful correlation.More solar storms means more energy from the sun which tracks with higher temperatures. Solar storms per year are on an 11 cycle that has other longer cycles added in to make the line unpredictable.

We had a highest ever peak in the 80's and a historic drought for 3 years around 2002. This is why we had high temps in the 90's with lower temps around 2005. I expect it will take about another 10 years for the gaps in the GW crap to get to a point where there will be actual debate.

I like solar power and electric cars, but I am offended that scientists chose to sacrifice good science to get their political way and scare people away from fossil fuels instead of doing the hard work of making the alternatives competitive.

[tombogan03884]

The funny part about this is that there was a great paper published in Science mag back in the 80's right around the time this all started called the Variable Sun. The researchers did a great job of matching various temperature measures for the last 2000 years against solar storm intensity and got a beautiful correlation.More solar storms means more energy from the sun which tracks with higher temperatures. Solar storms per year are on an 11 cycle that has other longer cycles added in to make the line unpredictable.

We had a highest ever peak in the 80's and a historic drought for 3 years around 2002. This is why we had high temps in the 90's with lower temps around 2005. I expect it will take about another 10 years for the gaps in the GW crap to get to a point where there will be actual debate.

I like solar power and electric cars, but I am offended that scientists chose to sacrifice good science to get their political way and scare people away from fossil fuels instead of doing the hard work of making the alternatives competitive.

That seems to be the "scientific method".
If you have a political agenda that is not supported by the facts the answer is not to revise your political stance, but instead, make up facts that do support your agenda since the "unwashed masses" are to dumb to know the difference.
It's part of being a college educated liberal.
Sagan's "nuclear winter" is an example, He never submitted this KGB funded study for peer review because some, if not all, of his facts were fantasy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Tretyakov_%28intelligence_officer%29#Claims
Another fine example of "scholastic integrity" is Michael A. Bellesiles, who's anti gun, revisionist history of guns in America was found to be "factually flawed", and use citations that had nothing to do with what he claimed they said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arming_America#Emory_investigation_and_resignation

[Solus]

There is such a beautiful symmetry between Global Warming and Nuclear Winter.

Global Warming start to get critical, induce a bit of Nuclear Winter.

One Chicken Little Catastrophe is another's salvation.    And vice versa.   Simply beautiful.