Stop using the Army for your liberal social experiments!

[Timothy]

I worked out more than most in boot out of boredom!  Something to do between smoke breaks...we had one guy who was such a load that he couldn't do 6 pull ups until the day he actually HAD to do it to graduate.  I think they actually lowered the bar for him...

[jnevis]

So you guys are Ok with a DI having a chat and some coffee cake with a recruit that disobeys an order?  'Cause nobody mentioned that.  That's the part that got my blood pressure up.  Interesting.

Read it again.  At no point does it say the DIs are being touchy-feely.  There's a huge difference between "mentoring" and being their friend. 

"You have to realize that not every single trainee that you deal with is going to be the same. They're all not all going to relate, take the information the same and relate the same," said Staff Sgt. Jarod Moss, a reservist from Dallas who is part of the 95th Reserve Division based at Lawton, Okla. "Look at it as a different way to teach it."√

Also disobeying an order and requiring "remediation" are two distinct scenarios too.  I'll talk with someone that "doesn't get it" but stand by I they actually say "I'm not going to..."

[BAC]

Part of the drill sergeants' evaluation focused on what they would do if a trainee refused to do as they were told. One drill sergeant tackled the scenario by simply saying "let's talk" and listening to the recruit and then providing mentoring.

Not touchy-feely at all.  No, not at all.

[tombogan03884]

I'm fine with it.
The more sissified the better .
If it ever comes that "UN" troops are on American streets, it will be these armed flower children under the blue helmets.
The more they concentrate on "social conscience" the better my odds of survival.

[bulldog75]

I got my a$$ chewed on by a 1st Sgt. in Iraq because I did not talk to my soldiers about their feelings. He told me that the old Army guys like me were a dying breed and were no longer needed. We are becoming a better Army without all of the screaming and yelling. No do not smoke them or punish them talk to them. Old school worked on me and I had one crusty NCO that was a Vietnam vet and he got hands on knocking the smarts out of you. I guess that I am going to retire here soon and not have to worry about that anymore.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

I got my a$$ chewed on by a 1st Sgt. in Iraq because I did not talk to my soldiers about their feelings. He told me that the old Army guys like me were a dying breed and were no longer needed. We are becoming a better Army without all of the screaming and yelling. No do not smoke them or punish them talk to them. Old school worked on me and I had one crusty NCO that was a Vietnam vet and he got hands on knocking the smarts out of you. I guess that I am going to retire here soon and not have to worry about that anymore.

Is that why we beat 3 industrialized nations in 4 years with hollering, screaming and an occasional thumping, but we have accomplished nothing in 10 years against a bunch of camel humping hill billies ?

[jnevis]

Is that why we beat 3 industrialized nations in 4 years with hollering, screaming and an occasional thumping, but we have accomplished nothing in 10 years against a bunch of camel humping hill billies ?

Following that logic Tom, we got our a$$'s handed to us while DIs COULD yell and beat Recriuts by a bunch of rice muching hillbillies for almost 15 years. 

[Timothy]

Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan were and are un-winable and not worth one single American life!

I do wonder though about the suicide rates over the last ten years in the military.  That is a disturbing trend for our troops!

[tombogan03884]

Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan were and are un-winable and not worth one single American life!

I do wonder though about the suicide rates over the last ten years in the military.  That is a disturbing trend for our troops!

Survivors guilt is fairly common with in combat units, look at the rates after service in WWI, WWII, and Vietnam.

All 3 of those wars were very winnable.
Just not by politicians.
Same with Afghanistan, if we had ever had a clearly defined objective it could have been achieved.
Just not by touchy feely political faggots who are more concerned with the "feelings" of the enemy than they are with the survival of our own troops.

Following that logic Tom, we got our a$$'s handed to us while DIs COULD yell and beat Recriuts by a bunch of rice muching hillbillies for almost 15 years. 

Actually it holds together J.
They were still allowed to thump recruits during Korea and in order for Truman to snatch stalemate from the jaws of victory he had to relieve MacArthur, experiment with desegregation, and involve the UN.
They stopped thumping recruits officially in the mid 50's, the result was we haven't won a war since.

[jnevis]

My point is that to blame loosing a fight on the way Servicemembers were trained in Boot Camp is not only wrong, its offensive.  There is ample proof to show that the political manipulation by the civilian leadership is the cause, not the ability of a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine to think with his head and get the job done that they were ordered to do.  That's part of the reason "thumping" Recruits is frowned upon now. 

Today's Recruits are smarter and better educated than anytime in our nations history.  They also don't HAVE to be there.  Retirement beniftis have gone to $h!t.  They're forcing experienced personnel out at 10-14 years to get under the mandated force strengths.  There is no reason whatsoever for anyone to stay for a full 20 any more unless your already at 15+.  If you spend the first two years of an enlistment getting screamed at and thrown around, when you can easily get out and get better pay and benifits on the outside, would you stay? 

So a DI can't beat a Recruit into submission, maybe they have to be a little more teacher than disciplinarian.  So what?  That 18-19 y/o kid didn't have to sign up.  Also that same Recruit is given the tools to think on his feet and look at the problem logically instead of just blindly jumping in.  Last time I checked that is what can and will save your a$$ in combat.  At the same time washout rates have gone down while, if you really look at them, the requirements have stayed basically the same over the last few years.  Yes, some of the physical requrements have been modified, but not drastically.  Navy Physical Readiness standards have been getting increasingly harder not easier since I joined, not just because I'm officially old now.  There is a lot more mental testing too.  The desire is for a Servicemember that can not only fight, but be diplomatic and able to make a desicion on thier own.  Basic combat hasn't changed in a millenia. Fight the enemy, protect your buddy, get home alive.  What has changed is at what level decisions are made and how fast they have to be made. 

Data is being pushed to a much lower level than it ever has.  Intel that in the 50-60s MIGHT be seen at the Battalion level is now on the individual squad's mobile device.  Division leadership can have near-real-time information on individual fire teams.  Stuff that was Buck Rodgers fantasy is a reality and it takes a different type of Servicemember to use it.  In this age critical thinking skills are much more important than being a mindless drone.  NCOs are making stategic plans that would have only been made at the Company or higher level.  There are plenty of places that an NCO is the senior person on the ground.  Delaying a decision to get higher authority on the radio could have far-ranging implications.