2012 DNC platform plank on firearms

[Paraguy]

Thank you for the explanation!

[WatchManUSA]

Since the incident at Aurora, CO and the couple of incidents that have occurred since, I have had an ongoing Facebook debate with a person I know who is an anti-gun person.  If he had his way all guns would be confiscated.

I have found it very difficult to keep him on point.  He has a circular argument is based on the premise that the saving of even one life is worth trampling the 2nd Amendment. 

I have reminded him that nothing in real-life can stand up against that standard.  Life, after-all, is dangerous.  Practically everything we own can be a cause or contributor to a death.  In fact I can't think of anything that, when used improperly, couldn't cause death or serious bodily harm.

Really, you can't win an argument with these people.  In the end, we have win elections to try and maintain constructionists on SCOTUS.  With recent rulings that isn't much either but it is better than the alternative.

Winning elections is all about the spoils.

[MikeBjerum]

Crusader,

You did a great job, but you forgot to point out that the non-dealers at tables or walking the floor, or even in the parking lot are free to make those sales and transfers whether at a gun show or not.  It happens legally every day.  It is not a loop hole as they would want everyone to believe.

[alfsauve]

Since total confiscation and even regulating all private transfers isn't too palatable to the general population, this spurs the gun banners to make up the gun show loop hole.


The firearms laws don't regulate "sales".  they regulate "transfers".   A very important distinction.   You can buy without transferring and you can effect a transfer without buying.  Gifts or even LOANS are considered transfers.   Think, letting someone shoot your gun at the range as becoming illegal without an FFL to process paperwork and perform background checks.

Having made up the gun show loop hole as a step toward total control, definitions of what constitutes a "gun show" become ominous and starts to infringe on the 1st Amendment.   The right to peaceably assemble.   I've read some of the proposed legislation.  One, IIRC, defined a gun show as ANY meeting between 2 or more people (like you could have a meeting with less than 2!) whether in person or through some medium, with or without firearms present, pre-planned or not, that initiates what ultimately ends with a transfer of a firearms.  Then, they put the onus and penalties on the "gun show organizer" who has to register the meeting, file paperwork and insure compliance by all parties.   Pretty tough to do at an impromptu encounter. 

So if a co-worker casually mentions he always wanted a .357magnum and you say, I have one for sale, that's a gun show.   Not only would the transfer have to go through an FFL, but the gun show "organizer" (your boss who wasn't even involved) would be subject to penalties for holding an "illegal" gun show.    You think that's crazy?  Crazier than declaring washers as silencers?

Scary stuff.  That could shut down all gun related forums whether they have "classified" sections or not.  Actually some of these proposal would do more harm to firearm ownership than an outright prohibition on private transfers.

[crusader rabbit]

Crusader,

You did a great job, but you forgot to point out that the non-dealers at tables or walking the floor, or even in the parking lot are free to make those sales and transfers whether at a gun show or not.  It happens legally every day.  It is not a loop hole as they would want everyone to believe.

Absolutely right.  Oversight on my part.  Thanks for the clarification. 

Crusader

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

The only aspect they might have going is that it is a per-arranged meeting place for personal sellers and buyers.

They might pass a law forbidding private sellers at the gun shows., but then they would have to pass a law forbidding it in the gun show parking lot, and  next the parking lot across the street, etc, etc, etc.

Becomes pretty obvious that there is no Gun Show Loophole they want to stop, but private sales altogether.

[fightingquaker13]

The only aspect they might have going is that it is a per-arranged meeting place for personal sellers and buyers.

They might pass a law forbidding private sellers at the gun shows., but then they would have to pass a law forbidding it in the gun show parking lot, and  next the parking lot across the street, etc, etc, etc.

Becomes pretty obvious that there is no Gun Show Loophole they want to stop, but private sales altogether.

Its their answer to the anti-choice crowds focus on late term abortion. They bring up something rare but inflamatory and make people think its the norm, so they can appear reasonable when they say "We just want a few commonsense limits". Of course that's not what they want at all, what they want is their nose under the tent. Screw 'em. The answer is a resounding NO.
FQ13

[Majer]

in ny at gun shows all sales (private or dealer)have to go through a NICS check,no parking lot deals,they even set up sting operations in the parking lots to keep people honest.If you meet someone at the show and they call you a week later you would still have to do the NICS check or face prosecution

[TAB]

What is really fun about all this is, if they would just come out and say:  " we want all gun sales to have to go thru a dealer" there would be enough public support to have a chance of it passing congress.   

[Timothy]

What is really fun about all this is, if they would just come out and say:  " we want all gun sales to have to go thru a dealer" there would be enough public support to have a chance of it passing congress.  

Don't know if you've noticed but Congress hasn't been paying attention to what the public citizen wants!  Most, if not all of what's happening in D.C., has nothing to do with what the citizens!

We can transfer anything between two private citizens here as long as we fill out one piece of transfer paper and mail it to the bureau.  ANYONE who owns a gun here MUST have an FID or LTC to own even ammunition so they've already been vetted by the state anyway.