Night Fire

[Ranger Dave]

After listening to the podcast MB down on self training I have been thinking what I could do on my own to improve my skills. Last night I done a base line test on shooting my pistol, shotgun and ar15 at night using a gun mounted light(Insight WX150 thanks to DRTV ). I figure from here I can mark improvement as I go forward.

Pistol Glock 21 in .45cal I've had this gun since 1996 and it was my duty gun for Security & Police. 1st pic is 5rds at 21 ft. 2nd pic is 4rds at 30ft I need to work on this.

[Ranger Dave]

Shotgun is an Intra Arms Hawk 12ga(China copy of 870) 18in barrel with ghost ring sights and the insight light mounted on the forearm. 1st pic is 2 rds 00buck at 21 ft. 2nd pic is 2 rds at 30ft. not pictured was 1 rd 00buck at 45 ft I had 2 pellet of target need to work on that.

[Ranger Dave]

AR is an Essential Arms lower with a DPMS upper flat top with a standard front sight. I have the light mounted on a rail at the 6o'clock position. 1st pic is 3rds at 30ft. 2nd pic is 3rds at 45ft. 3rd pic is 3rds at 150ft need to work on that.

[Ranger Dave]

Thoughts, comments, suggestions

Ranger Dave

[tombogan03884]

Not bad .
I'm assuming you did this at home, so you have space enough for shots over 15 yards.
Just thinking out loud here, but it seems that beyond 10 yards a rifle/carbine would be a more appropriate choice, with that in mind your results are plenty good enough for the average home owner, all hits on the target .

[Sponsor]

[Magoo541]

What was you shot cadence?  Did you have a timer to document how long it took to shoot those groups?  A good base line would measure everything so you can track your progression.

Now that you have a base line from a square range have you thought of trying a 3 gun match?  This would give you a better idea of how you perform in a dynamic event.  I know that with a handgun going from a square range to a USPSA several issues rose in my own shooting/gun handling that I never would have found shooting bullseye.

Just my thougthts.

[Ranger Dave]

I did not have a timer, but I was not going slow nor super fast. 3 gun interest me except for cost of ammo. What other drills can we come up with to make this a learning experience for all.
Ranger Dave

[Magoo541]

Transition from rifle to handgun, multiple target engagement, rounds on target in 6 seconds from holster/low ready, good guy/bad guy identification and engagement, snap shot from low/compressed ready for all three guns, reloads & malfunction drills from behind cover, shoot-move-shoot are all drills I can pull from my experience training knowledge (I know its a short list  ) and given the night fire nature of this thread could be done in low light then no light.  If we are dealing with just home defense work within the confines of your house but if we are expanding the operating environment to open property or "out in the woods" I think 100 yards would be max for an AR for night time training/defense purposes or the ability to identify friend/foe with weapon/hand held light although I would push the round to is max range in daytime for confidence sake.

[usmcdadx2]

I second the 3 gun suggestion, except for rare special occasions and matches my local range doesn't allow rapid fire, rapid transitions from weapon to weapon or any of that dynamic stuff...stand, sit or kneel, single targets, relatively slow fire and standard trap/skeet shotgun work only. I do really well at that type of work, good groups, call my shots that kind of stuff so I thought to myself “I is pretty hot shit”...then a buddy took me 3 gunning  what an f-ing eye opener! Oh and a great time too.

[Rastus]

Now, this is my two cents from the standpoint of using a handgun for self defense only.  The three gun sounds like fun, but I don't have enough time and focus on self-defense and if you are interested in self training on the pistol, consider shooting around a barricade.

Put a barricade up and try it again from 5-7 yards! ! !  That really went a long way in helping my skill and techniques.

I have found that I needed to have multiple techniques in the trick bag to choose from.

If all is open I like the light on my left temple (right handed) with an unsupported single hand gun hold.  Yeah, yeah I know the light is by my head as a target but holding up and over is awkward and slow.  I prefer and think it is superior to hold the light on the side of your head.  If you, for instance, hear a sound and turn your head to ascertain a threat location holding the light in your hand takes significantly longer to get the light "on target" then having it held against your head.  I want to see the threat as quickly as possible to dazzle and address the threat...my 2 cents...for me I think a threat that has tipped his location off has a lot more time to see and shoot me if I don't know where he is when that light is up in the air trying to keep up with where my hearing has already told my head and eyes to look...try it both ways and let us know what you think.

I search from top then down and then more detailed top to down and over and top to down again, etc..  I want to see a threat (face and hands) before I illuminate his feet. 

I do not like my strobes...they "freeze" the user somewhat too....especially when there is a lot of reflected light.  And I absolutely hate the buttons that change modes...it sucks to want to illuminate and get the SOS, strobe or low power function...no kiddin', sucks, slows you down and throws you off...not what you want to do to win the fight.  Think about it.  I am only buying lights that change modes by twisting the bezel from now on.

I think you can have too much light in a house....for me 200 lumens seems right.  More tends to "dazzle" me too. Outside more is better unless you have barrier to peer around.  You can be behind another threat and illuminate yourself easily with a lot of light around a barrier plus dazzle yourself.  If you are shooting 20-50 yards plus...go for all the lumens you want.  However, I think that night shooting will be primarily at close range and/or indoors so I'm sticking with 200 lumens +/-.

If I am shooting on the right hand side I either use the crossed back of hand to back of hand method to get the light around the barrier on my right hand side or I hold the light over my head with my left arm over my right shoulder (awkward and does not provide support for the shooting hand). 

If shooting on the left side, being right handed, it just sucks.  I hold the light high over head with just enough light on the gun to see the sights and then lean over...it's not great, let me know what's better.

I do like tritium sights...but only because I have Trijicon HD with a flourescent orange front ring I can illuminate...the rear sight with tritium dots will improve my shooting accuracy at a cost in speed...without the HD I would black out my rear tritium sights like on my M&P 45 that does not have anything to easily distinguish the front sight.  I like the Trijicon XD rear sight configuration with a wide slot...it really helps at night compared to the older model on my M&P. 

Oh yeah, I move with the light off.  Search and shoot with it on.

Just my 2 cents....your mileage will vary.

Try the barricade and let me know how that affected what you perceived and how you address your techniques afterwards.