Red Dots.. I'm behind the curve...

[fightingquaker13]

That's funny... Because a police academy instructor told me the rule of 3 to 5's back in the late 1990's.

3 to 5 seconds in duration

3 to 5 yards

3 to 5 shots fired

If I had the time, I'd like to track down all 60 news links for each shooting.

Unless you're the NYPD, and then its empty your mag as fast as possible, reload, then aim.

[tombogan03884]

Actually it is Joe Private Citizens. It comes from Tom Givens (rangemaster.com), who has had 60 students involved in shootings in the past five years, says the average gunfight is “three shots in three seconds at three yards,” but also reports a few student incidents in which eight to twelve rounds were fired.

That's funny... Because a police academy instructor told me the rule of 3 to 5's back in the late 1990's.

3 to 5 seconds in duration

3 to 5 yards

3 to 5 shots fired

If I had the time, I'd like to track down all 60 news links for each shooting.

Actually they are basically the same just that Tylers gives more of a range rather than a specific measurement.
What I'm more curious about is Tom Givens having 60 students involved in shootings.
How many of those were actually "civilians".
 What percentage of all his civilian  students is that.
How does that percentage compare to other instructors experience.

[fightingquaker13]

It does seem like a lot. I know a lot of guys with CCWs and none who've ever had to fire their weapons, including me, knock wood.

[jnevis]

If his percentage is that high I'd have second thoughts about taking a class from him. I personally do NOT want to be in a gunfight, and with that law of averages says...

 

I've always seen those numbers associated with the FBI reports, not civilians.

[santahog]

Actually they are basically the same just that Tylers gives more of a range rather than a specific measurement.
What I'm more curious about is Tom Givens having 60 students involved in shootings.
How many of those were actually "civilians".
 What percentage of all his civilian  students is that.
How does that percentage compare to other instructors experience.

If you look at a map, going out a couple of hours from Tom Givens place, you'll see some pretty rough towns in his territory. that could explain alot.. Don't know, mind you.. Just a thought..

[Sponsor]

[Tyler Durden]

Sorry, santahog I didn't mean to derail your thread.

Have you tried some crimson trace laser grips yet?

I use them for bowling pin matches.

They are awesome!   

I am assuming you have heard of the Bindon Aiming Concept, where you shoot with both eyes open, and your brain superimposes the two images.

Scroll down at this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Combat_Optical_Gunsight

[TAB]

60 students seems awfully high, unless they are armed professionals of some kind( leo, guard, miltary and etc)     even if say 1% of your class takers need to defend themselfs.  ( which would be way high for the public  , but about right for leos)   that would mean you would need to train about 6k people a year.  Which is alot.  Even if you work 300 days a year, thats 20 new people a day.      that has to be for professionals. ( or its bs).

[DonWorsham]

Actually they are basically the same just that Tylers gives more of a range rather than a specific measurement.
What I'm more curious about is Tom Givens having 60 students involved in shootings.
How many of those were actually "civilians".
 What percentage of all his civilian  students is that.
How does that percentage compare to other instructors experience.

I'll try to get some answers. I am relying on my memory as I did not take notes during Given's lectcure. And I'm likely wrong about the time frame. Given's has been in business for at lest 30 years. Those "60" likely occured over that time. As I think about it, the lecture focused on 10 or so of events. Those may have occured in the last 5 years. By the way, 58 of his students won the shoot out. 2 died. They were not armed at the time.

[tombogan03884]

I'll try to get some answers. I am relying on my memory as I did not take notes during Given's lectcure. And I'm likely wrong about the time frame. Given's has been in business for at lest 30 years. Those "60" likely occured over that time. As I think about it, the lecture focused on 10 or so of events. Those may have occured in the last 5 years. By the way, 58 of his students won the shoot out. 2 died. They were not armed at the time.

That would tend to inhibit success in a gunfight.

[Solus]

I'll try to get some answers. I am relying on my memory as I did not take notes during Given's lectcure. And I'm likely wrong about the time frame. Given's has been in business for at lest 30 years. Those "60" likely occured over that time. As I think about it, the lecture focused on 10 or so of events. Those may have occured in the last 5 years. By the way, 58 of his students won the shoot out. 2 died. They were not armed at the time.

So, 100% of his students who brought a gun to the gun fight won.   

Not a bad record.