Thoughts on a pistol caliber carbine

[mkm]

A 9mm kel-tec sub2k that takes glock mags is on my list. I haven't really handled one (none at those specs) very much and never actually shot one, but I hear really good things out of them. It is pretty much the only current gun that is buy instantly and make room in the budget for it when found. It wouldn't replace the rifle caliber carbine for serious work, but it would fill a specific niche that I currently have open. I've done quite a bit of road traveling over the last few months (on a friend's futon as I type this) and, of course, take my pistols with me. I haven't been going to or through any notoriously bad places but have been bringing a long gun nontheless. My problem is I often end up in less than gun friendly places, and a cased long gun isn't the easiest thing to hide. The kel-tec would allow me to utilize existing ammo and mags, give me increased range and accuracy over a handgun, and allow me to haul it in a much more subtle and inconspicuous manner. It's size and ability to fold even smaller is the only reason I'm still wanting it. An ar based pistol caliber carbine doesn't get any smaller than my rifle caliber ar. Therefore, I prefer the range and power of the rifle  caliber over the ability to share ammo and mags. Given unlimited funding, things may be different in the desire for an ar based one but not the choice of what to take with me.

[alfsauve]

Alf, I agree, but it's a process. If you start out as a handgun guy (like me) then your next logical step is a carbine, which is a really good move...it works!  Once you see the difference the rifle barrel makes with your handgun round it makes you think.
First off, anyone with a name like Garand4life might have a rifle. The concept of common ammo is a good one logistically and for SHTF purposes, but I still think he'll be into a combat rifle at some point if he isn't already.  I think the carbine is a valuable category.

I guess that's what I was trying to say Jay.   At different stages in life you have different priorities and resources.   I loved having the Camp 9 at the time.    And the idea that I could grab one bag of ammo, a pistol and a rifle all using the same magazine to bug out with is a good idea. 

Oh, yeah, I figure G4L has at least 1.. uh.. Garand?   

[billt]

I've handled those Berettas a few times and I'm not impressed, plus they're over priced.

That was my biggest gripe with the Beretta Carbine as well. Way too much plastic for a gun that expensive. They felt good when I shouldered one. But the cost was just too much for what you were getting. Another nice thing about the 9 MM AR-15, (regardless of brand), is you have all of the same aftermarket stuff avaliable that you would any other AR. Handguards, stocks, grips, carry handles and scope mounts will all interchange. I don't know of much of anything in the way of aftermarket products avaliable for the Beretta. I'm not saying the Berettas are "bad", just that there are better options out there. I think I would even go with one of the new Thureon Defense 9 MM Carbines over the Beretta.

[2HOW]

Hi point carbine is on my list. Match it to my EDC ammo wise. But I agree with Alf, you must have a decent rifle to compliment it. And I dont mean a .223, 

[RTFM]

Still like the idea of pistol caliber carbine -
Might also suggest the Ruger M77/.357 - Bolt action .357 as an alternative to the lever gun -
But both options are great.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

A 9mm kel-tec sub2k that takes glock mags is on my list. I haven't really handled one (none at those specs) very much and never actually shot one, but I hear really good things out of them. It is pretty much the only current gun that is buy instantly and make room in the budget for it when found. It wouldn't replace the rifle caliber carbine for serious work, but it would fill a specific niche that I currently have open. I've done quite a bit of road traveling over the last few months (on a friend's futon as I type this) and, of course, take my pistols with me. I haven't been going to or through any notoriously bad places but have been bringing a long gun nontheless. My problem is I often end up in less than gun friendly places, and a cased long gun isn't the easiest thing to hide. The kel-tec would allow me to utilize existing ammo and mags, give me increased range and accuracy over a handgun, and allow me to haul it in a much more subtle and inconspicuous manner. It's size and ability to fold even smaller is the only reason I'm still wanting it. An ar based pistol caliber carbine doesn't get any smaller than my rifle caliber ar. Therefore, I prefer the range and power of the rifle  caliber over the ability to share ammo and mags. Given unlimited funding, things may be different in the desire for an ar based one but not the choice of what to take with me.

I agree. I'm not kel-tec's number one fan. I owned one of their pistols for about 15 minutes before trading it in on a Glock because I hated the trigger. Still, I think the SU 2000 is a briliant design. I've never shot one so I'm going to assume the trigger sucks. That said, the fact that it folds away to nothing and takes Glock mags in .40 and 9mm wins it huge points. Its a great truck/boat/travel gun. Its cheap, the sights are adequate, and if its a typical kel-tec it will go bang. Not great accuracy, but good enough to win an argument at across the street distances.I'd love for Hi-point to take 33 round Glock mags, but apparently they're a company run by idiots so they don't. For less than $400-$500 used, I'd  consider that Kel-tec and a G-19 to go with it. Its not an AR, but it will let you get someone's undivided attention inside of 75 yards.What's not to like? 

[mkm]

I agree. I'm not kel-tec's number one fan. I owned one of their pistols for about 15 minutes before trading it in on a Glock because I hated the trigger. Still, I think the SU 2000 is a briliant design. I've never shot one so I'm going to assume the trigger sucks. That said, the fact that it folds away to nothing and takes Glock mags in .40 and 9mm wins it huge points. Its a great truck/boat/travel gun. Its cheap, the sights are adequate, and if its a typical kel-tec it will go bang. Not great accuracy, but good enough to win an argument at across the street distances.I'd love for Hi-point to take 33 round Glock mags, but apparently they're a company run by idiots so they don't. For less than $400-$500 used, I'd  consider that Kel-tec and a G-19 to go with it. Its not an AR, but it will let you get someone's undivided attention inside of 75 yards.What's not to like? 

I can now say I've shot one.  Brother and I picked up a .40 one for him Thursday.  We had a rushed shooting trip yesterday to double check scopes on the hunting rifles and fired it a few times.  I didn't get to shoot it too much, but, without practice, it was decently accurate at approximately 100 yards.  A man sized target would have been in a world of hurt.  With more time and practice, I'm sure we can get much better with it.  Unless something happens with his to change my mind, I am will definetly purchase one without hesitation.  I just can't seem to find one.  That's the second .40 glock I've seen, and they said they just recently sold the 9mm glock one.  It only took the store 8 months to get them in.

[WatchManUSA]

Colt 9mm Carbine AR Model 6450: http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtCarbinesII.aspx

Bushmaster Carbon 15 Model 90747: http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/carbon_15.asp

Olympic Arms K9, 40, 19, 45 series (Must download 2012 Catalog: http://olyarms.net/
Olympic also sells pistol caliber uppers for the AR platform.

Vector Arms Full Sized UZI: http://www.vectorarms.com/uzi.html

[billt]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't stand those Mag-Pul MOE Handguards. They look just like the plastic case my wife's electric kitchen knife came in.

[fightingquaker13]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't stand those Mag-Pul MOE Handguards. They look just like the plastic case my wife's electric kitchen knife came in.

Agreed. I bought a set set from Midway, and just couldn't put them on. They weren't just ugly, they didn't feel good in my hands. I like Magpul stuff, their P-mags are great and their BUIS are nice (though they do take up some real estate), but those handguards? Not so much, but that's just an aethetic judgement. I'm willing to bet they work just fine and YMMV, its a personal thing, I'd just prefer something else.