12 Ga. Bird Shot For Home Defense

[billt]

I found these videos to be really interesting. I've done similar "tests" myself, and I've never understood why people think a Trap load, (1-1/8th ounce of #8 shot), would not be effective in a home defense scenario. A round of this stuff taken to the chest is going to stop a person, period. Remember, we're talking under 20 ft. here. I'm starting to think people who argue you "need" 00 Buck in a 12 bore to be lethal, are either repeating Internet hearsay, or have never fired a 12 Ga. much, if at all.

[tombogan03884]

It has the added safety feature that individual pellets are less likely to go through your walls with enough power to injure bystanders or neighbors.

[jaybet]

We have a 20 ga with birdshot hanging over the door in the walk-in closet. If you're there and you need a gun your range is going to be under 10 feet. Should be effective.

[billt]

I agree with both of you. I think there is way too much emphasis put on 00 buck and slugs for home defense. The people who preach this, are usually the same ones who never mention over penetration. I just can't imagine a fist size pattern of #8's screaming at someones chest at 1,200 FPS not being effective.

[RTFM]

Tom Gresham - Gun Talk - is a proponent of bird shot at across the room distances for indoor home defense.

In last few months the topic has come us and over and over and he will talk about the tight pattern in the 12 - 25 ' range and is good for its intent and the point already made above that it does not over penetrate inside house/walls and does not have the tendency to leave a buildings exterior walls. But if it did would not have a lot of energy left.


What I'm not too sure about is use #2 or #4 - I think I would tend to error on the larger #2 if I were to use birdshot.

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

The prob with those is they are generally steel, not lead.   

[JoeG]

I think the reaction to the birdshot strategy is all about being attached to the FBI stopping power model. You see it all the time is science and engineering, people struggle to build a mental model of what is happening and then the model becomes more important than the real experience. Most of us have never shot another person especially if you limit it to handguns. (including me thank god) We naturally hope to extract as much knowledge from those who have or at least have a model to test so that we feel like things are more organized. Throw in marketing hype and subtle changes that are usually improvements and pretty soon it starts to feel like "keeping the faith" is very important.

People collapse thinking about what a LEO should carry and what I have for home defense. I don't think the FBI should do entries with birdshot but given the legal issues and concern for my neighbors I think it is a valid option for my HD.

The more I have read about stopping power the clearer it is that in the end it is shot placement that stops fights. I have a lot of respect for MB and his commitment the the ideas of largest caliber you can get repeated good hits with. Since I don't get to carry here in CA, my thinking is mostly focused on home defense and options for personal defense when TSHTF.

I have settled on #4 shot as my first line HD round for my 12 gauge.  I have shot a lot of trap over the years and am fine with being able to deliver the shots. Qt least until I can buy an Abrams tank

Joe

PS why is steel bad, lead good if we have already accepted birdshot vs. buck? Obviously lead is more dense etc. but 1/2 MVsquared = kinetic energy does not care about density.

[BBJohnnyT]

I have a teen in another bedroom down the hall, and my home is fairly small at under 2,000 square feet.  I also have neighbors just 30 feet away.  So I loaded my bedroom 870 like this...

1. First 2 in the tube are #6 birdshot (Federal Hevi-shot tungsten).
2. Remaining 4 in the tube are #4 buckshot.
3. The side saddle has 4 00 buckshot and 2 slugs.

Knowing how devastating birdshot is at close interior distances, something would have gone terribly wrong if it even escalates to my need for the #4 buck.  The loads in the side saddle are there if all bets are off.

[tombogan03884]

I think the reaction to the birdshot strategy is all about being attached to the FBI stopping power model. You see it all the time is science and engineering, people struggle to build a mental model of what is happening and then the model becomes more important than the real experience. Most of us have never shot another person especially if you limit it to handguns. (including me thank god) We naturally hope to extract as much knowledge from those who have or at least have a model to test so that we feel like things are more organized. Throw in marketing hype and subtle changes that are usually improvements and pretty soon it starts to feel like "keeping the faith" is very important.


PS why is steel bad, lead good if we have already accepted birdshot vs. buck? Obviously lead is more dense etc. but 1/2 MVsquared = kinetic energy does not care about density.

Like humans cause global warming ?  

The problem with lead versus steel shot is the hardness of the lead is believed by some to be harmful to barrels.

[billt]

It's just an audio segment of Tom Gresham's nationally syndicated radio show "Gun Talk". He takes a call about birdshot for home defense. The actual conversation about the birdshot loading is at 3:00. He takes another call from an Alaska hunter and taxidermist at 7:45, who has some really interesting things to say about bird shot on large bears at ranges up to and including 30 feet.