Warning on using E85 Fuels in Older Cars

[rojawe]

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/

[wtr100]

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/

horse feathers - Brazil went to an E50 I believe their vehicles didn't grind to a halt 

[crusader rabbit]

Aside from the very real physical damage caused to older engines by this crap, there is a moral component as well.  (Ask Deepwater what this ethanol crap did to the fuel system of his beautifully restored motorcycle.)

It is (IMNSHO) immoral to run your pick-up truck on food when so many are hungry.

Corn-based ethanol has increased the prices of everything from tortillas (a staple for poor Mexicans) to rib-eyes (something I can only lust after).  Pork prices have increased.  Chicken prices have increased.  Even the price of vegetables has increased because farmers can get better subsidies by growing corn.

Like so many things forced upon us by big government, this is simply wrong.

If we were to follow the Brazilian model, we'd be making this out of sugar cane.  It's more production efficient.  Cane is less costly than corn.  And it might just take some sugar out of the market, thus saving teeth today, and the cost of diabetes treatment down the road.

Crusader

[Jrlobo]

There is good reason why car manufacturers warn about using E85 in car engines not designed for it...it damages engines and fuel systems. E85 is like lipitor: Don't take if (and the list goes on for a mile). There are plenty of warnings for small engines, like lawn mowers, string trimmers and small tractors, that use of any fuel containing ethanol at 10% or 15% levels causes fuel problems and abnormal wear. I drove E85 company cars that dictated use of E85 where possible (mandatory if fill up was to occur within 20 miles of an E85 pump) and scratched my head over it. For one, fuel was more expensive and for two, gas mileage was cut in half. Almost ran out of gas on a long trip on my first attempt with one. I won't be so harsh as to suggest that if someone thinks that Brazil has the answer then they ought to move there, but I will suggest that you study Brazil a little more closely before we all start having to plant sugar can in our back yards!

[santahog]

Aside from the very real physical damage caused to older engines by this crap, there is a moral component as well.  (Ask Deepwater what this ethanol crap did to the fuel system of his beautifully restored motorcycle.)

It is (IMNSHO) immoral to run your pick-up truck on food when so many are hungry.

Corn-based ethanol has increased the prices of everything from tortillas (a staple for poor Mexicans) to rib-eyes (something I can only lust after).  Pork prices have increased.  Chicken prices have increased.  Even the price of vegetables has increased because farmers can get better subsidies by growing corn.

Like so many things forced upon us by big government, this is simply wrong.

If we were to follow the Brazilian model, we'd be making this out of sugar cane.  It's more production efficient.  Cane is less costly than corn.  And it might just take some sugar out of the market, thus saving teeth today, and the cost of diabetes treatment down the road.

Crusader

BUBBA, YOU ARE SINGING MY SONG!!!!!
There is more rank hypocrisy in that policy than the dolts that signed onto it could absorb in a gallon of moonshine at a Baptist church social.. (Or Deacons meeting at Hooters.., and I've seen both..)

[Sponsor]

[MikeBjerum]

I am so F'n sick and tired of this anti-ethanol crap!

There is nothing wrong with ethanol as a fuel!  It isn't the best solution, but if our idiot government hadn't held pricing below true production costs in the 1980's and 90's farmers would not have developed a profitable market for their produce.  Now that the toothpaste is out of the tube, and I don't know who is going to put it back in.

[warhawke]

Number 1, ethanol is a SOLVENT! and a damn good one.
Number 2, Brazil grows 3 crops of sugarcane a year and STILL has to subsidize production.
Number 3, ethanol requires more energy to produce than it yields. 

The only reason we use it is because certain vested interests have refused to allow diesel fuel (and biodiesel) to gain widespread acceptance in this country.

[MikeBjerum]

Number 1, ethanol is a SOLVENT! and a damn good one.
Number 2, Brazil grows 3 crops of sugarcane a year and STILL has to subsidize production.
Number 3, ethanol requires more energy to produce than it yields. 

The only reason we use it is because certain vested interests have refused to allow diesel fuel (and biodiesel) to gain widespread acceptance in this country.

Number 1, and it is also a very potent fuel
Number 2, we subsidize every energy source in this nation in one way or another.  Even evil coal and nuclear are both penalized and subsidized.  It is called buying your elected seat!
Number 3, Only if you honestly believe that the only use for the grain is the ethanol.  The production of ethanol from grain has a net gain in energy, and the bi-products have value.  Dried Distiller's Grain has a higher food value than raw #2 corn.

As I said earlier, if this nation would have allowed farmers to make money on their crops as food they would not have found a profitable way to market them.  When we were raising 100 bu per acre corn we were putting it in piles on the ground and watching large percentages rot away.  The farmer was getting $1.00 per bushel on the market, and for the bushels with subsidies they could get as high as $1.35.  Today we are raising 75% more, and there are no price payments from the government.  However, even with the increased usage and export we still can't build storage fast enough to keep up with the increased production and lose to decay.

Perhaps we need to try a new experiment in this nation:  Quit micromanaging everything!  Let the market forces work!

[Jrlobo]

Okay. How many of you proponents of the E85 own E85 capable vehicles? And, then, how many of you actually pay for E85 fuel? How many of you experience better mileage with E85 than you do with straight gas (no ethanol)? All this to-ing and fro-ing re ethanol is meaningless. What counts is results. I, for one, have already done the E85 experiment and found it wanting, even against 10% ethanol fuels! I grow corn in my backyard...to eat. I bet some of you folks use E85 to clean your AR's...

[PegLeg45]

Actually, both M85 and Jrlobo are right in certain areas.

Ethanol fuel is a great fuel, and very potent (due to the higher inherent octane rating) than standard fuel....IF you use it in an engine that has been tuned to maximize the potential. It is a terrific racing fuel if the timing curve and carb/EFI has been jetted for the extra flow rate needed because it takes more volume. It also burns cleaner.
You can find a happy tuning medium, which is what the E85 Flex Fuel car and truck engines are designed do.

My truck has the GM 5.3L engine that (even though not marked for it, certain year models of 5.3's will all run Flex Fuel) will run on E85..... but I do not because of the mileage the engine has on it. Like others have said, running E85 in a system that is older and has not had it in there will cause problems for the system due to the cleansing properties of the ethanol.


When we first got local access to E85, I tried it..... and Like Jrlobo, found it to be lacking.

From my own actual experience via my 2003 Silverado with 5.3L Vortec (also with Hypertech tuning system) I have found:
1- E85
   A) Ain't all it is cracked up to be in a street vehicle.
   B) Causes erratic engine idle.
   C) Gets about 15% less mileage than E10 (standard) fuel.
   D) Costs about $0.20 per gallon less than E10, but that value is lost in the lower mileage per gallon.

2-Non-Ethanol gasoline
   A) Makes my truck run like a top
   B) Smooth engine idle and good power range
   C) Gets as good mileage as standard E10
   D) Costs an average of about $0.20 per gallon more than standard E10

3- Standard E10 (10% ethanol)
   A) Best all-around choice for what is available due to mileage vs cost vs performance

This is my experience with both my vehicles.
(my son got the same results with both his 2000 Silverado 4x4 and his 2010 Nissan Titan)

YMMV