Author Topic: Berger Hybrid Target .308  (Read 11269 times)

kmitch200

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Berger Hybrid Target .308
« on: April 13, 2013, 10:26:39 PM »
Looking for anyone's experience with the Berger Hybrid Target bullet.
I'm hoping that they group better than the SMKs when loaded to magazine dictated OAL but want to know if anybody has some feedback.
Going to try some in a semiauto to see if they like being off the lands better than the regular VLD. The regular VLDs shoot OK (and can be used for hunting) but the groups are not up to SMKs.
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robert69

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 01:12:23 AM »
What rifle are you loading for?
If it is a AR-10, than in the magazine length cannot be over 2.800.
If it is a bolt, than I can adjust the COL in my Savages for about .030 jump to the lands. The magazines in these rifles will give some
COL leeway, but not much.
The brand of rifles (Rem, Win, Ruger, Savage) magazines will determine COL.
If you are going to load Bergers, than get their manual (must), Very good info.
I just shot today, 4/13/13, berger 155.5 HPBT full bore, versus 155 Sierra HPBT Palma,
with 2 model 10 Savages, and a model 16 Savage today. The Bergers were 2.810, and Sierra's were 2.800 COL.

Overall, the Sierra's 10 shot groups were groups loaded with 40 and 41 grains IMR 4895.
I only had enough Berger's loaded to shoot a few groups in the model 10's, (4 rounds each), and got 5/8" groups, all holes touching.
The Sierra's gave 10 shot 3/4" groups in both model 10's.  I can attach the targets if you want to see them.
I have shot Berger 168 VLD's versus Sierra 168 match HPBT, in a DPMS LR-308, and the Sierra shot tighter
groups, but the Berger's shot very close to the Sierra's group size. The powder charge is 40 grains IMR4895, fed 210, or CCI BR-2.
The only problem with the Sierra 168 match HPBT bullets are that I need to trim the bullets to get the best groups.
If I trim them, I can reduce the group size by 1/4" or better (If I do my part when shooting). This allows me to control the seating
depth COL MUCH better, than if I don't trim them. Makes all the bullets the same length,
I like to shoot 10 round groups to prove out a load.
But, of course, you shoot what is AVAILABLE now. An interesting project. They both are excellent bullet brands.

kmitch200

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 02:12:06 AM »
The rifle is a Remmy (DPMS) R-25 - Krieger M110 Service Rifle 20" stainless barrel (headspaced by Krieger) w/Obermeyer chamber, 1 in 11 twist and a Timney trigger - Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 glass. It is a BEAST to haul around hunting because of the weight but an absolute creampuff to shoot.
I'm stuck at 2.800 for a COL due to the mag.
My bolt guns really like Berger VLDs just kissing the lands. No problem - with the mag length of a Rem 700. The SMKs and hunting bullets in the bolt gun aren't as sensitive to COL but the Bergers shoot better when loaded as mentioned.
As it sits, the semiauto will shoot a cold, clean bore shot within the rest of a 5 shot 1/2" group (100yds) with Federal GMM 168 or 175gr. or equiv. 2600fps handload and will shoot 1/2 moa what seems like forever.

What I'm searching for is that 1/4 moa load...and I like to play.  ;D
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tombogan03884

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2013, 09:37:33 AM »
No specific info, but Berger has had a decent reputation for a long time .

TAB

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2013, 12:30:24 PM »
i use berger is my 17 remington.   It will put 5 shots under a dime if I do my part.
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:22:20 AM »

robert69

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2013, 08:08:16 PM »
Darn, I just lost my last reply, so here goes again.
In my last reply I said that 40 grains of IMR4895 shot very well in my DPMS LR-308, heavy barrel, 24 inch. I have two identical uppers, scopes and all, set up exactly the same, so it is just the two pins to swap them, and I also have wedges cut to make a tight fit in the lower halves. There is about .004 difference in the wedges between the two uppers, so I have to make sure what wedge I use, or I can't close the halves together if I have the wrong wedge. I do have a Geiselle national match trigger, without which I would be unable to get the groups I do.
40 grains of 4895, or 39 grains of varget gets 2450 fps at 10 feet in a 24 inch barrel, with Sierra 168 grains. It is when you go for 10 shot groups is when the men get separated from the boys, HI HI HI.  I have found that in my rifle, if I go up to 2550-2600 fps, my groups will begin to open up vertically. My 10 shot groups are consistantly 5/8" at 100 yards with the 40 grains 4895 load, and BR-2 primers. If you shoot the Sierra's at 200 yards, you will find that the group sizes don't grow much over the 100 yard groups. It seems like the 168 grain match HPBT settles down better out there.  I know my DPMS at 300 yards, the groups are 1-2" when I shoot at a range at Salmon, Idaho, in the morning with little wind blowing.
Also, try Federal 210M or CCI BR-2 primers to see if they make a difference in group size. I have lots of each.
Realistically, a 10 shot 1/4" group in a semi, or a bolt for that matter, will be very tough, especially if you are shooting 100 yards or more outdoors. I can easily get 5 shot 1/2" or better groups. (witnessed targets)
The groups I shot yesterday were very good, but the wind changes direction at the range 3 times (flags) in 100 yards.
At this range, at Issaquah, Washington, it is in sort of a valley, created by overhead barriers, and trees, which can give wind shifts up to 4 times from the bench to the 100 yard target frames. Still, I got 5/8" measured 10 shot groups, if I did my job.
2 years ago, 74 degrees, no wind, I shot 2-10 shot groups at 100 yards with a 17 HMR 17 grain bullets and 20 grain bullets, that you could cover with a dime. (witnessed).
So don't give up, but if you can get 10 shot groups of 1/4" at 100 yards with a semi, (witnessed) I will take my hat off to you.

kmitch200

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 01:03:35 AM »
Also, try Federal 210M or CCI BR-2 primers to see if they make a difference in group size. I have lots of each.
So don't give up, but if you can get 10 shot groups of 1/4" at 100 yards with a semi, (witnessed) I will take my hat off to you.

So far I've used mostly the BR-2 primers. (o6 loves 'em) I haven't dug into my Fed match ones in a while.
I'm just starting to play with the semi 308 and I have about 5 different powders to use so we'll see how it goes.

If I get a 10 shot 1/4" group it will be obvious...I'll be the one doing the happy dance on the firing line at Ben Avery!  ;D
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robert69

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2013, 10:30:24 AM »
In my DPMS lr-308, I have found that IMR 4895 works the best.  Stick with powders in or around that burning rate, with varget or 4320 , or reloader 15, and it will work fine.  I tried CFE 223, and got vertical stringing, even down to 44.5, with the 168 bullets.
Vertical stringing  usually means that the port pressure MAY be still a little high as the bolt unlocks.

robert69

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 07:51:44 PM »
Hi to all, again.
I was at the range yesterday, specifically to shoot a savage model 16, heavier stainless barrel .308 win.
This one is particular, in that it prefers 150-155 grain bullets. All shooting was at 100 yards.
Anyway the Sierra 150 HPBT, and Sierra 155 match shot good.  The Berger 155 full bore 's groups weren't so good. OK, but not better.
My DPMS LR-308, heavy 24" barrel really prefers the 168 grain bullets with 40 grains IMR 4895, CCI BR-2.
This load gives 2450 at 10 feet, chronoed. I shot 50 rounds with each upper, and the group sizes were the same with each upper.
Anyway, this rifle, along with another upper, set up exactly the same, scopes are  MILLET LRS-1, shot at 24 power setting.
These two uppers really prefer the Sierra 168  match, Sierra Match #2200.  Yesterday I also shot the Berger 168 VLD Hunting, #30510
and the VLD groups were 1/2" - 5/8" larger than the Sierras, both uppers.  The groups for the Sierra were max 5/8" both uppers.
All rounds COL were at 2.800, because of the magazines.
The day was spent comparing the two bullets in my DPMS, and I think the Sierras definately shoot better.  All groups were 10 round groups, and many of the groups were 5/8" because of one called pulled shot.  Most of the holes were all touching, 1/2" groups.
Don't let anyone say that a DPMS LR-308 can't shoot. I have the targets to prove it. The rifle weighs at 13#.

billt

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Re: Berger Hybrid Target .308
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2013, 03:09:27 PM »
I've run the Berger 210 grain VLD Target in all 3 of my .300 Win. Mag. rifles with great accuracy. In all of my rifles, (Remington 700 Sporter, Savage 110 FCP-K, and a Kimber 8400 Tactical), I can seat the bullets to the same O.A.L., and they are between .020 and .035 off the lands. This has given me the most accuracy with both IMR 4831 and Reloader 25 powder.

I have no doubt the lighter Bergers will perform just as well in the .308. As was mentioned, just watch your O.A.L. if you're loading for a semi. I should add the new Berger Reloading manual is really worth the money if you reload their bullets.

 

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