so any guess on how long til the feds raid the pot shops?

[kmitch200]

Who was using crystal meth and Extacy in the 30's?

Anyone who wanted to buy it.
You could buy methamphetamine in a store, it had been around since 1919.
Extacy (MDMA) was patented in 1914.  It only became a schedule 1 drug in 1985.
Pot is a schedule 1 drug - the same class as heroin. 
Anyone who thinks that they are equal in dangerous effects is a farking dumbass. (Congress)

Even Cocaine didn't come into vogue as enough of a drug problem until the 70's and 80's when it became the "IN" drug around the disco and night club scene. Drug use was no where near as prevalent back then as it is today. Sheer population numbers prove that.

"Sheer population numbers"? There are more people now!
I think a more honest discussion would be "percentage" of population. Point in fact: there is a lower percentage of teens using weed "recently" (in the last month) now than in the late 70s/early 80s according to the National Institute of Health.   

If you can't distinguish the difference between ice cream and crystal meth, this discussion is over.

It certainly is for me....this dead horse of a thread has Xs for eyes. Feel free to have the last word, I'm done.
I think our society would be better off letting people do what they want - whether that is getting a degree in neurosurgery or destroying yourself by ODing in a gutter.
I'll gladly step over the dead body and go about my business.

[billt]

I think our society would be better off letting people do what they want - whether that is getting a degree in neurosurgery or destroying yourself by ODing in a gutter.
I'll gladly step over the dead body and go about my business.

How about you pay to clean up the mess they make as well? I agree with you. The problem is it's not that simple. If every drug user O.D.'d and killed themselves, that's fine. It's cheap to bury corpses. That is hardly ever the case. They ring up millions in cost and lost revenue before they reach that point, if they ever do. No one is benefitting from this, and we all have to pay for it, one way or another. The problem isn't drug use. The problem is the irresponsibility and expense associated with the "recreational" use of drugs.

[Solus]

How about you pay to clean up the mess they make as well? I agree with you. The problem is it's not that simple. If every drug user O.D.'d and killed themselves, that's fine. It's cheap to bury corpses. That is hardly ever the case. They ring up millions in cost and lost revenue before they reach that point, if they ever do. No one is benefitting from this, and we all have to pay for it, one way or another. The problem isn't drug use. The problem is the irresponsibility and expense associated with the "recreational" use of drugs.

Bill that is the same thing they said about smokers vs non-smokers a few years back...but it simply is not true...at least for the Smoking debate...and with out involved statistics, you cannot claim it is true about drug users either.

From the Smoking/Non-Smoking debate

In 1997, a group of scientists at Erasmus University in Holland famously showed that smokers have lower total life-time health-care expenditures than non-smokers. Smokers do cost a lot more per year of life, but because their lives are so much shorter on average, the non-smokers end up with higher costs in the long run.

http://healthland.time.com/2009/08/04/does-prevention-really-cut-health-care-costs/

Also, you need to put in the costs for the DEA and any other drug prohibition enforcement costs.  Additionally, you need to add in the costs of incarceration for those convicted of drug related crimes of possession and sale.  Plus the costs of the prosecution.  I have read that 50% of the jail space is taken up by drug offenders...I don't have a breakdown of the crimes, but many must be possession or sale...any crimes committed to acquire drugs would not be counted as robbery and any attendant crimes would still be valid charges.

This is also similar to the argument the AMA often uses to push for bans of firearms....the health care costs of the victims of firearm injury.

[tombogan03884]

Who was using crystal meth and Extacy in the 30's? Even Cocaine didn't come into vogue as enough of a drug problem until the 70's and 80's when it became the "IN" drug around the disco and night club scene. Drug use was no where near as prevalent back then as it is today. Sheer population numbers prove that. Technology, as well as modern chemistry has "invented" many new drug and social issues. We obviously didn't need drunk driving laws before the automobile was invented.

Look, I don't like legislation any more than anyone else. But you just said it yourself. Texting and cell phone use while driving is a perfect example. Both didn't exist 35 years ago. Today they do, and are a dangerous problem. I don't own a phone that can send a text message, because I think the whole idea is absurd. Call me crazy, but I use a phone to actually TALK to people. Many do text while driving, and they endanger others when they do. Same with booze and drugs.

The fact is many people are just too stupid to manage their lives in a respectable manner. They constantly endanger others with their compulsive, stupid actions. That is why we are a society of laws, like it or not.

This just proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
Cocaine has been used for recreation since the 1880's or before.
It was one of the original ingredients of Coca Cola.
It was quite popular with the upper classes gaining recommendations from the likes of Sigmund Freud, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who's famous literary character frequently used Cocaine, in a 7% solution .

[Solus]

BTW, Ice Cream was outlawed at one time.  (don't know if it is an Urban Legend, but it is attributed to a published news paper)

They way I heard it was that the churches noted a drop in Sunday contributions in the collection basket and attributed it to the popularity of the newly introduced Ice Cream Soda which was billed as an after church treat... and the story picks up from there.

Evanston, Illinois in 1890
Ithaca Daily Journal, May 28, 1892

Evanston was one of the first locations to pass a blue law against selling ice cream sodas in 1890. "Some ingenious confectioners and drug store operators [in Evanston]... obeying the law, served ice cream with the syrup of your choice without the soda. Thereby complying with the law… This sodaless soda was the Sunday soda."[3] As sales of the dessert continued on Mondays, local leaders then objected to naming the dish after the Sabbath, so the spelling of the name was changed to sundae.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundae

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

it would be very intresting to see what the costs of lack of productivity actually are.    most jobs the details are very, very important.  While i can't speak for all industrys, in construction, a 10% loss in production is more then enough to cuase you to go under.  Profit margins on track homes are not a lot.  When i was paninting tracks, we had to get 6 done a day or we lost money and if you were spraying it on too thick, you could blow your profit on a house, not just for that house, but for the entire day.   a back charge could kill your entire week.   its like that for every trade in new home construction.  Its not uncommon to have $250 in paint in a house and only be getting $325 total.   

[Rastus]

How about you pay to clean up the mess they make as well? I agree with you. The problem is it's not that simple. If every drug user O.D.'d and killed themselves, that's fine. It's cheap to bury corpses. That is hardly ever the case. They ring up millions in cost and lost revenue before they reach that point, if they ever do. No one is benefitting from this, and we all have to pay for it, one way or another. The problem isn't drug use. The problem is the irresponsibility and expense associated with the "recreational" use of drugs.

So I'm thinking if a drunk or a druggie kills someone in a car accident they should face the music and pay that same price. 

That's fair.

[billt]

This just proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
Cocaine has been used for recreation since the 1880's or before.
It was one of the original ingredients of Coca Cola.
It was quite popular with the upper classes gaining recommendations from the likes of Sigmund Freud, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who's famous literary character frequently used Cocaine, in a 7% solution .

Yes it existed. But it wasn't the problem that it is today. And from a cost standpoint, there were no federal programs for the small number of these people that existed at the time to suck off the government tit. You didn't have THOUSANDS of people a year dying from drugs like Oxycodone, which by the way requires a prescription to get. Do you think there would be fewer addicted to it if you could buy it over the counter for one third of what it costs now? It would be the exact same with all of these other illegal drugs.

Availability through legalization is only going to make the problem worse. This country has dumbed down considerably since those days. Adding more fuel to make them even dumber just makes an already bad situation even worse. You, or anyone else, will never make a convincing argument that giving dangerous intoxicants legal, widespread use, is ever going to benefit mankind. We've already seen first hand how bad this country has transgressed in the last 40 years because people are getting dumber. Now you want to add illegal drugs to the mix? Who will they elect President then, Dennis Rodman?

[billt]

it would be very intresting to see what the costs of lack of productivity actually are.    most jobs the details are very, very important.  While i can't speak for all industrys, in construction, a 10% loss in production is more then enough to cuase you to go under.  Profit margins on track homes are not a lot.  When i was paninting tracks, we had to get 6 done a day or we lost money and if you were spraying it on too thick, you could blow your profit on a house, not just for that house, but for the entire day.   a back charge could kill your entire week.   its like that for every trade in new home construction.  Its not uncommon to have $250 in paint in a house and only be getting $325 total.

Our place is one of the best places to work in our industry, Aerospace and Semiconductor machining, in and around Phoenix. It's unbelievable the amount of applicants that fail the drug test, and are refused employment as a direct result. Also good employees who are drug tested as the result of on the job injuries.....And fail. All are automatically terminated as a result. All of these people wind up getting lesser paying jobs, and most don't last at them. Word gets around. A really stupid way to deny yourself a good paying job, with good benefits. Just because you want to get high. This is going downhill further every day. Watch how drug related firings go up in states like Colorado. Employers won't allow for this, regardless of what some new law allows.

[TAB]

Our place is one of the best places to work in our industry, Aerospace and Semiconductor machining, in and around Phoenix. It's unbelievable the amount of applicants that fail the drug test, and are refused employment as a direct result. Also good employees who are drug tested as the result of on the job injuries.....And fail. All are automatically terminated as a result. All of these people wind up getting lesser paying jobs, and most don't last at them. Word gets around. A really stupid way to deny yourself a good paying job, with good benefits. Just because you want to get high. This is going downhill further every day. Watch how drug related firings go up in states like Colorado. Employers won't allow for this, regardless of what some new law allows.

yep,   i read a report that already several surounding states have seen a huge increase with dui( pot).  most jobs a dui = pink slip  atleast in every job i have ever had.  thats every thing from construction, retail, consulting, and structural engineering.