#354 No Knock Raids

[JC5123]

I was listening to MB's rant about no knock raids this morning on my way to work, and I must say his analysis is spot on. I have long feared the militarization of our LEO's. I believe that this mentality took hold when we stopped referring to them as Peace Officers, and started calling them Law Enforcement. An admittedly subtle change, but I believe a profound one in the mentality of many.

To my point, MB mentioned that we need to change how we interact with them, which is the easy part. It is something that we as a culture discuss and refine on an ongoing basis. My question is, how do we begin to change the attitude of our Police towards us, when they are perceiving us as them?

[Michael Bane]

I wish I knew!

Through THE BEST DEFENSE and though our own contacts with LEO trainers, we've bought up this issue repeatedly. Some departments and trainers have been responsive to our points, some less so.

Our primary points have centered around the concepts of Armed America, and police SOPs for dealing with armed civilians that were drifted in the 1960s and focused on the Dread Black Panther Menace just don't cut it anymore.

Michael B

[JC5123]

I realize that this is another issue in which we must make inroads at the grassroots level. The only idea that I can think of is to go directly to our Sheriffs and discuss with them candidly how to go about solving this problem. The laws are clear when it comes to CCW. We as armed citizens are expected to know every facet of the laws. However it is clear that many LEO's do not know the laws. Also, increasingly they seem so hell bent on "dominating" a situation that they often fail to listen to a CCW holder attempting to declare themselves as such. We have all seen by now instances in which this very situation has turned out badly because the LEO seemed to have absolutely no respect for the citizen they were dealing with.

I agree with MB that this change all started at the outset of speeding tickets. At that moment a small seed had been planted that has now grown to a near complete "us vs. them" attitude. Not only on the part of the LEO's but for law abiding citizens that are increasingly concerned of having their rights violated and quite possibly their lives taken because of how they are viewed by police.

And don't get me started on the FEDS. 

[Magoo541]

Every year my gun club hosts a benefit match for a local child abuse resource center and it is run by local law enforcement.  Last year out of the 130+ shooters about half were LEO.  So out of our local community of law enforcement 65'ish officers were able to interact, compete against, and lose  to a group of avid shooters/civilians. 
Just recently an individual was found Not-Guilty for shooting and killing a LEO conducting a No-Knock warrant which should cause a shiver down the collective back of Law Enforcement.
Unfortunately there have been a number of deaths attributed to these types of tactics that never seem to amount to much change in tactics. Maybe because it wasn't an officer but a hapless civilian that lost his life trying to defend his castle.

[GASPASSERDELUXE]

If you are talking about the guy found not guilty, in Texas, you are incorrect. He wasn't tried in court. A grand jury refused to indict him of the charges. The district attorney stated the he would try again with the next grand jury.

[Sponsor]

[Magoo541]

If you are talking about the guy found not guilty, in Texas, you are incorrect. He wasn't tried in court. A grand jury refused to indict him of the charges. The district attorney stated the he would try again with the next grand jury.

Yes that is the incident I was thinking of, thanks.  I'd take a refusal from a grand-jury over NG any day.  Either way the point is that No-Knock Raids are getting some societal push back.

[JC5123]

My big fear is that with the rise in firearms ownership, more departments will justify no knocks as standard procedure. I think all of us here can follow where that rabbit hole would go.