Video Analysis

[Rastus]

What do you guys think about posting links to online videos that show violent confrontations for the purpose of analyzing what the victim(s) did wrong and what they did right?  Just watching a couple of clips helped me to learn or reinforce a few things. 

Of course there's the whole issue of avoidance as well...although avoidance is certainly not a victim's choice in all instances.

Here's one I posted on the Shooting Gallery thread.  First allowing entry of an unauthorized person was a no-no...it went seriously downhill from there.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/156456/another_senseless_murder/

[tombogan03884]

I think it is an good learning tool, just like a Football team watching game tapes and then critiqueing the actions. As in this video, The victims were so intent on controling/beating the gunman that they never thought to control the GUN. The man shot in the head was standing there trying to get a punch into the robber, it would have been very easy for him to grab the bg's gun hand when it came out above the crowd, this would have given him control of where the weapon was pointed even if he was unable to take it away.

[Rastus]

I think it is an good learning tool, just like a Football team watching game tapes and then critiqueing the actions. As in this video, The victims were so intent on controling/beating the gunman that they never thought to control the GUN. The man shot in the head was standing there trying to get a punch into the robber, it would have been very easy for him to grab the bg's gun hand when it came out above the crowd, this would have given him control of where the weapon was pointed even if he was unable to take it away.

I concur.  I also think their situational awareness was non-existant after making the mistake granting the guy access.

Unauthorized entry, awareness, failure to neutralize weapon....what else?

[tombogan03884]

It looked like rather than "Restrain/ aprehend the BG, they were just going to kick his a$$, wrong mindset.

[Hazcat]

It looked like rather than "Restrain/ aprehend the BG, they were just going to kick his a$$, wrong mindset.

Stop the threat / control the situation.

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

It looked like rather than "Restrain/ aprehend the BG, they were just going to kick his a$$, wrong mindset.

Stop the threat / control the situation.

Right.

[twyacht]

The guys seemed to want to wrestle this thug initially, once they jumped him, eye-gouging, Mike Tyson his ears, kick to the balls, all bets are off when the BG pulled a gun.

If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.
Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)

"Don't hit at all if it can be avoided, but never hit softly."
Theodore Roosevelt

[CurrieS103]

Your right they seemed to forget all about the gun and concentrated on kicking the guys a$$.  Ego and testosterone seemed to have ruled not survival.

[Ksail101]

I think that everyone on here has made good points. What I see in this video is something that could happen very easily with my friends and I. We all being together feeling maybe stronger than we are and instead of just giving up our wallets loosing maybe a 100 bucks, we think we can over power the person and gain the upper hand. Now we would all probably be carrying, but if we werent I am sure our false security would still get in our way.

Adrenaline is a very powerful thing, witnessing it first hand a mans strength, just like the perps in this video, can triple and him releasing that weapon is like trying to break it free of steel vise grips. When I was about 9 years old I had a big travel trailer tongue slip of its jack and land on my foot. My Father in the midst of an adrenaline filled flury, picked up what would be equal to lifting a small cars back end off the ground, lifted this trailor's tongue weight off my foot by himself.

In this situation I almost feel that four men on one guy is too much. All jockeying for postion is leaving some men in the open just like what happened. Two men on that one perp the out come could have been vastly different and you see after the fight becomes two on one the victims gain control of the weapon.

I feel that in this situation if you are with out your own firearm and you cant get a shot off without endangering your mates, I think the best is to give up the wallets look for an opening upon the perps move to retrieve the thrown money or wallets, and wait to call for a police assistance. Or maybe get a shot off when the assailent is turning to leave.

There will be an opening. But like I stated before it is hard to go in with four guys at once. Someone will be left open so in the safety of your buddies,time is the perps enemy. Wait for your chance. I believe with my friends that have been trained, we could do something and all think on the same lines of what the others are all thinking. But if I was in the situation with 4 friends I havent spent years training with and know how they will react or what their abilities are, I would try to take control by speaking to everyone to calm down give him what he wants and if the opening comes take it, but wait. Sit on the situation. All alot harder said than done.

[CZShooter]

Good post. I like these where you get a chance to analyse the situation and figure out what you would do/what did they do wrong. It keeps the mind sharp.

I agree with what's already been posted...they looked more interested in retribution than neutralize/restrain the BG. From a CCW standpoint...I saw several opportunities to present/engage (if your quick), but probably not the best option in such close quarters with so many friendlies (know your abilities). You know the process: avoid, placate, escape...

One of the other things that this reminds me of...is someting the lawyer related during my CCW class. It is conceivable that once they started kicking his tail...the BG could claim self-defense for shooting them, once they crossed the line of SD to assaulting him. I would like to hope that wouldn't be the case, but I've seen stranger cases tried.