Author Topic: Tower 7  (Read 15619 times)

2HOW

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AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY

Hazcat

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2008, 06:07:15 PM »
Cue the twilight zone (or X files) music.
All tipoes and misspelings are copi-righted.  Pleeze do not reuse without ritten persimmons  :D

Ron J

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2008, 10:32:16 PM »
I turned if off within a minute when the narrator said something about being the first time that an “ordinary fire” ever collapsed a building.  Had they put their bangers and mash down for a wee moment to do some research, they would find that statement to be patently false. 

If it wasn’t for something called evidence and scientific facts, the WTC7 “conspiracy theories” might fly in more places than just Damascus, Gaza and Rosie O’Donnell’s living room. 


Teresa Heilevang

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 12:41:40 AM »
Ron...
I'm not going to once again..get into a pissing match with you where this is concerned.... but what do you THINK made the perfectly good building which only had fire, fall in a perfect nice neat little pile of dusty rubble.. ?
If you would have watched the whole thing.. you might have actually taken your blinders off and saw what was there. And listened to professionals talk.

(That is MY observation)

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tombogan03884

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 04:03:32 AM »
Ron...
I'm not going to once again..get into a pissing match with you where this is concerned.... but what do you THINK made the perfectly good building which only had fire, fall in a perfect nice neat little pile of dusty rubble.. ?
If you would have watched the whole thing.. you might have actually taken your blinders off and saw what was there. And listened to professionals talk.

(That is MY observation)

Sorry Marshal'ette,  Not long afterward there was a News story about people being pissed that the Fire Dept just let Tower 7 burn when it Might have been saved if the fire had not been allowed to progress so far. Besides, buildings that I have seen usually go inward because the Elevators and stuff act as a chimney, consuming the center first, creating a vacuum, and allowing the out sides to fall inward. Look at the Marine Barracks in Beirut, all the Embassies bombed, They come down like pancakes. I put as much faith in the "George Bush did 9-11" theory as I do B-Ho's "Change". Not much. It would not have stayed secret

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #5 on: Today at 10:13:27 AM »

1776 Rebel

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2008, 08:03:46 AM »
All you have to do is use your head. Forget about the physics and engineering aspect of it. Just ask yourself this question...What tangible effect did the falling of one lousy buiding in NYC have on the world? Zero. Crap burns, falls and explodes in NYC all the time.

Ron J

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2008, 08:18:01 AM »
Ron...
I'm not going to once again..get into a pissing match with you where this is concerned.... but what do you THINK made the perfectly good building which only had fire, fall in a perfect nice neat little pile of dusty rubble.. ?
If you would have watched the whole thing.. you might have actually taken your blinders off and saw what was there. And listened to professionals talk.

(That is MY observation)




My dear, my blinders are off and we have never been nor will we ever be in a pissing match on the internet.  We can save that until after I grill you and Marshall a steak with onions and shrooms!   ;D

The last time this topic came up, you had mentioned that you had a little reading to catch up on and would try to get to the links regarding the scientific evidence on the various “conspiracy theories” that I provided.  I will assume from your comment that you have not quite got caught up yet. 

Short synopsis.  This is like watching a “magic act” on TV.  They are showing you what they want you to see.  There is no scientific evidence to a “conspiracy theory”.  The scientific evidence is very clear as to how and why Tower 7 collapsed.  It was due to damage from the North Tower.  Given the design structure of that building it collapsed as the laws of physics would dictate. 

What this video and the “conspiracy theorist” don’t show you are the OTHER VIDEOS that were taken from other news agencies.  For instance, the immense damage to the north side of the building or the ten foot wide hole that went through the center of the roof.  No mention of the fires much less expert testimony from Frankenstein on why “Fire bad”.  More specifically, to the building in Spain that fell to fire.  Now add 20 something oil filled generators (Google them and you can see the damn near nuclear reaction they have to fire) and things go volatile. Yes, fires can and have brought down buildings besides WTC7.   

To the notion of demolition via explosives, blowing up a building via controlled demolition takes a lot of thermite or whatever wonderful boom-stuff they would use.  No evidence of such.  None.  No one saw anyone rigging the building (which is not something anyone could conceal) and no one saw any of the vast amounts of explosive materials they would have had to use pre or post WTC7’s fall.  Videos did show the “puffs” of air escaping and some stated that this was proof of explosives being used because they looked like “squib charges” were being detonated.  Not so.  What they saw was the air escaping.  Each floor had something like an acre of air and it has to go out when the building comes down.  My guess is that this video didn’t mention any of the firefighter testimony about this or the “hurricane effect” of the air coming down the stairs did they?  Again, given the damage that WTC7 took from hit on WTC’s North Tower, it fell as it should have.  Studies from Purdue, MIT and Cambridge all came to the same conclusions that the buildings were weakened by the intense fires and that is why they collapsed.   
 
Let forget the scientific evidence and digest some common sense (wait, need to grab my extra heavy duty blinders   8) ). 

Does anyone REALLY think our government could pull something like this off?  This is a serious WTF moment.  Forget why or motive for bringing down WTC7.  Could something of this scale be pulled off by our government?!?  The planning and the execution would have been enormous in terms of time, people and materials.  Too many people and too many loose ends (evidence).  Too many idiots in government to pull this off along with too many good people in government that would allow anyone to pull this off. 

Marshal'ette, these videos simply ignore the scientific facts to the collapse. 

WatchManUSA

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2008, 09:36:19 AM »
If you are going to read about the supposed conspiracy you should also read the debunking stuff too.  If you become educated on both sides you are better able to make your own, informed decision.  In March 2005 Popular Mechanics published a good article on several of the conspiracy theories and offers a thoughtful and detailed alternative based on engineering and scientific principles that the conspiracy theorists rarely use.


March 2005 Popular Mechanics - Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report
Popular Mechanics examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11.

WTC 7 Collapse

Claim: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."




Fire Storm: WTC 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed Twin Towers. Damaged by falling debris, the building then endures a fire that rages for hours. Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)


FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies." (Groucho Marx)

Ron J

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2008, 10:31:43 AM »
WatchmanUSA:
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.




WatchmanUSA ... nice info.  This PM article and studies done by some universities do a pretty good job of explaining what we don't see from the "conspiracy theory" videos. 

Little added footnote … Fire burning at just 300º can weaken the steel beams as much as 20%.  A hotter fire with no fire protection (sealed/coated beams) & no fire fighting (internal sprinklers or external such as FDNY) can take any "perfectly good building" down.  As I mentioned earlier, this happened to a similar skyscraper in Spain and that building was not hit with any of the shit-storm of debris that WTC7 was hit with when the North Tower fell. 


Teresa Heilevang

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Re: Tower 7
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2008, 01:11:05 PM »
I'm outnumbered on this one.. and unlike Tab ( who has more stamina than I have).. I won't beat a dead horse to try to make him get up.. ;D

You are right Ron. I still have the information from you that I need to read.. and I will.. I promise.. And maybe it will answer some questions .. but there is logic on both sides of the spectrum here.

 I am also smart enough to hear that what you say makes sense.. but so does things that the interviewed "common" people say that they heard and seen..and what I see with my own eyes. Like I have said before.. I have talked to "kinda sorta" insiders of Washington. I am not the only one ( by a long shot) that feels that something is amiss....  and I just continue to have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach when I watch these things.  I see what I see..and even though the general census is that the government can't keep secrets...I still have an ugly feeling that we haven't been told anywhere near the truth. ( like what else is new with our "need to know"  government ..  ::) )  I am not saying that our government was alone in this.. and I am not saying that the al-Qaeda were not involved. I really don't know what to think to be honest.. But I DO know what I feel ..and I wouldn't trust anything that came out of our governments mouth. If they told me banana's were yellow..I'd start checking to see if I was color blind.
They are the most vile form of corruption on the face of the planet.. and none of us will ever know what happened. So it is probably best if I just forget it and concentrate on taking care of my family in the best way I know how when all of their corruptions finally explode like a volcano...and we are left to salvage what we can of our world.

Jeepers.. I am kinda sounding like a doomsday fanatic.. didn't mean to go off the deep end there. LOL
It is that I just get so exhausted and worn out trying to deal with all the corruption and back door cons and  government  BS that is thrown in our face every minute of every day..so I wig out occasionally..So I don't really trust anything anymore. (other than my circle of friends and family..
 ( and I wonder sometimes about some of my friends.)

ahhhhhhhhh take me awayyyyyy Calgon......






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