Author Topic: Something Big Is Going On.  (Read 10335 times)

unique

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2008, 03:23:43 PM »
Actually, his views don't matter, he's not going to get elected, plain and simple.  What he will do is pull votes from McCain and put Obama in the White House, that's what really matters.

tumblebug

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2008, 04:40:57 PM »
 BULL'S EYE

JohnJacobH

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2008, 08:40:36 PM »

Let's say JohnJacobH, Hazcat, and myself step off a jet back in 2001 in Kabul.  We walk over to baggage and pick up a few rifles and head on down to the Khyber Pass intent on wackin' some Tallyban. 



Well, you know, that is pretty much what H.Ross Perot did not too so terribly long ago.

In 1979, two EDS employees were taken hostage by the Iranian government. Perot directed a successful rescue mission composed of EDS employees and led by retired Green Beret Colonel Arthur “Bull” Simons. Perot himself went to Iran and entered the prison where his men were held. Ken Follett wrote a best selling novel, On Wings of Eagles, about the rescue. An NBC TV miniseries was later made from the book.


http://www.famoustexans.com/rossperot.htm

Do not underestimate the power of a small band of dedicated operators. After all, just such a band of 19 blew up a few billion dollars of American real estate with little more than boxcutters for weapons on 09/11/01. Or so I am told.

Best regards,

brosometal

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2008, 10:45:45 PM »
Well, you know, that is pretty much what H.Ross Perot did not too so terribly long ago.

In 1979, two EDS employees were taken hostage by the Iranian government. Perot directed a successful rescue mission composed of EDS employees and led by retired Green Beret Colonel Arthur “Bull” Simons. Perot himself went to Iran and entered the prison where his men were held. Ken Follett wrote a best selling novel, On Wings of Eagles, about the rescue. An NBC TV miniseries was later made from the book.


http://www.famoustexans.com/rossperot.htm

Do not underestimate the power of a small band of dedicated operators. After all, just such a band of 19 blew up a few billion dollars of American real estate with little more than boxcutters for weapons on 09/11/01. Or so I am told.

Best regards,


Thanks.  I am talking practicality and would rather pay for the fireworks.  There is something nice about spontaneous explosion via the US Air Force.  The effect of "shock and awe" is better received in the Arab world (a good read Saddam’s Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied and Survived Saddam Hussein). 

And equating Haz, you and I to the 9/11 fella's... well thems may be fightin' words.

All that aside, I detect a bit of, how to say, tin foil hat conspiracy in your tone (..."or so I am told."). Let a brotha know.

Back to the main point.  I would fully encourage anyone willing and able to wack a few terrorists for the cause, but equating the rescue of two hostages to the present conflict?  Apples and oranges my friend.  Let us examine.  In your example, Ross and Co. rescued the two hostages.   Great.  Define the victory:  Two people that are no longer hostages.  Now the present conflict:  The waters are a little more muddy.  Different folks will have different definitions of victory, but the "evildoers" just want to see the infidel bodies stacked high (I say return the favor in spades).  It does not matter how they kill just as long as they are able to.  I prefer that it be done in a foreign land like Iraq or Afghanistan.  History has shown that containment (Neville Chamberlain) and isolationism are poor "answers".  Pres. Bush took a different tact and History will have to be the ultimate judge.

To sum up, my R would be an L save the pitiful excuse for foreign policy of the Libertarian party.
The person who has nothing for which his is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
- J.S. Mill

tombogan03884

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2008, 04:06:55 AM »
For a quick primer:

http://www.progress.org/fold232.htm

While in theory this sounds all well and good plus it's strait from the good ole constitution, but what are the pratical ramifications?  Who would fullfill the letters?  Blackwater type orgs?  Private citizens?  That is the sticky wicket.  This was an answer to privateers or pirates, bascically small bands of brigands typically on the high seas, not the well armed, loosely organized terror operations of today.  How would private citizens operate in a forgein country without the "big stick" of the US government?  Let's say JohnJacobH, Hazcat, and myself step off a jet back in 2001 in Kabul.  We walk over to baggage and pick up a few rifles and head on down to the Khyber Pass intent on wackin' some Tallyban.  Not terribly effective.  Now lets insert Blackwater.  They have access to more weapons etc., but I wouldn't bet on spectacular results (I have been wrong before).  Now lets remember reality.  There were several groups of goat F-ers out in a field tending the loves of their lives... damn JDAM and a smoking crater.  I may be a bit bias but I think the last approach is the right one.  I guess I have a foot in the globalist intervetion crowd.  Kinda like the guy in the last row house on the block helping the guy four houses down fight a fire:  sooner or later it will be in my house as well.

From the article:

Since we have lost our confidence in the principles of liberty, self reliance, hard work and frugality, and instead took on empire building...

This is were Mr. Paul looses me and, I imagine, many others.  I have lost no confidence in any of the above metioned priciples, again, as I imagine many other haven't.  Doom!  Dispair!  I believe we should concentrate on attainable goals, and many of the others will fall into place.  The first and easiest place is education.  If you have kids, take them out of the public schools.  They are indoctriation camps.  Incourage relative and friends to do the same.  Most of the leftist teaching today happens before a child is able to think for himself.  If your child must be in a public school, take time to challege everything he is taught.  It is called critical thinking and it is a dying art form.  (And just a quick pet peeve:  Empire building?  If the US were empire building we wouldn't be the only superpower, we would be the only hemisphere.  We give back territory after armed conflicts i.e. Japan, Cuba, et. al.)

Without starting my manifesto, I believe Mr. Paul and dyed-in-the-wool Libertarians have several good ideas in the domestic areana.  However, when they step on to the world stage they loose a lot of credibility. 





Ron Paul is a strict "Jeffersonian democrat", and it's supposed to have a small  "d".  ;D
The problem arises with the FACT that Jeffersonian democracy as perfectly thought out, and well grounded in the Constitution, as it was did not even work for  Jefferson.  He had spent years working to limit Naval expense and military spending by arguing the same non involvement in foreign affairs, to the extent that our sailors had to endure British press gangs, until he became President and had to deal with the Barbary  (North African Muslims ) Pirates.
He tried all the modern nostrums, "Engagement," He tried talking to them, the longer they talked, the more US ships were seized, He tried "Foreign aide", more honestly know back then as "Tribute" and" Bribery", the more we paid, the more they demanded, and still more Americans enslaved and ships taken.
Finally with inflated insurance rates strangling the governments primary source of funding  Jefferson was left with no choice  but to create the US Navy to go over and kick a$$. We've had free passage of the Med. ever since.
 Jimmy  Carter, had the same result when HE tried to let the world go it's own way, Oil embargo, Canal giveaway, then the Iran hostage situation. "THEY" blame the failure of the rescue attempt on poor "Joint Coordination" and inter - service bickering. That may have contributed, but the true cause of the failure at "Desert One" was in the underfunding of National Defense. Some of my fellow Marines, (married, with children, Base housing) qualified for food stamps and other welfare benefits.
We replaced transmissions, engines, we could even take all the parts off a jeep uni body (M151 Mutt) and build a new one with the parts. If we had parts. We actually spent 6 months doing triage, some we could fix now, some later, some were cannibalized. Then from Oct. (the start of the fiscal year ) till around New years we waited for the "Honored Gentleman" to quit playing politics with the budget and get us some funding, even paychecks were "iffy". I don't recall ever missing a check, but the doubt was always there.finally we would get parts fix stuff like crazy and run out of funding after about 3 months. This was in  support of the "Front line" troops. This is not rumor, this happened TO ME, While I was on Med Cruise, a couple hundred miles off Lebanon during their one of their Civil wars, My platoon Sgt. and I are doing inspections on the trucks that towed our Artillery Battery,They were junk. No brakes, Doors FELL OFF, Plt.Sgt. is checking the engine on one truck, yells for me to shut it off, keeps yelling till I whacked him with the broken shut off cable that was Supposed to be firmly attached to the engine.
Just to prove that the cause and effect is not an American phenomenon there is the example of Neville Chamberlain, he starved the British Armed Forces , and basically gave Hitler anything he wanted for "Peace in OUR TIME".
We all know how that turned out   :( 

Sponsor

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #15 on: Today at 03:41:40 PM »

shooter32

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2008, 08:34:55 AM »
Tom , Right on the money!!!
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have. ~ Gerald Ford - August 12, 1974

Teresa Heilevang

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2008, 10:17:47 AM »
Thank you guys so much! Now THAT clears up a ton of stuff for me.
I really do have a hard time sometimes sifting through all the cornmeal to find the weavels. (my grandma used to say that  ;) )

And I also don't have a lot of patience sometimes to take the time to do it either.
 You guys all should be political teachers ..

hmmmm lets see...

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tombogan03884

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2008, 11:38:48 AM »
Thank you guys so much! Now THAT clears up a ton of stuff for me.
I really do have a hard time sometimes sifting through all the cornmeal to find the weavels. (my grandma used to say that  ;) )

And I also don't have a lot of patience sometimes to take the time to do it either.
 You guys all should be political teachers ..

hmmmm lets see...

Down Range University...

Professors on staff:
Tombogan
Ericire
Brosometel
Twyacht
John Jacob


 Can't forget our "Smart a$$ Emeritus : Hazcat  ;D

Teresa Heilevang

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2008, 12:14:39 PM »
Haz is a professor alright.. but it isn't in the "politics room"..

 ;D ;D
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Hazcat

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Re: Something Big Is Going On.
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2008, 12:39:20 PM »
Scatology?  ;D
All tipoes and misspelings are copi-righted.  Pleeze do not reuse without ritten persimmons  :D

 

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