The "Wet" AR

[CybScryb]

Question for all...many of the TV gun gurus preach keeping an AR well lubed (over lubed IMHO).  I have an almost broken in Stag lefty that I've been cleaning and lubing with my normal Cylinder & Slide Dunk.  So far so good but I've noticed a few failures to feed and am beginning to wonder if I should apply a bit more lube during use.

Here in the Vegas Valley, the lack of rain turns the desert dirt into a fine talc like dust and the Dunk seems to almost repel dust.  My Glocks, Colts, Smith & Wessons, Dan Wesson, Rugers, AK's and SKS all seem to thrive on the use of Dunk with a very light application of grease on the metal to metal parts and little else.

Am I under lubing by using just the Dunk and a very light coating of Brownell's Action Magic lube?  I don't want to damage the firearm either by under lubing or by over lubing and attracting abrasive dust.

[tombogan03884]

Probably OVER lubing. Parts only need lube where they move against one another, and then we are talking  one drop on this side, one on the other and wipe that in. If you can See that it's lubed you have to much. And in a dry dusty climate lube attracts every bit of dust and dirt that can get to it.

[MikeBjerum]

The only TV "keep it wet" that I saw was when they were shooting thousands of rounds in a hurry.  The guns were so hot they smoked when they lubed them, and I figured it was heat evaporating the lube.

I lube mine with a cloth and gun oil.  I will put on just enough to give a glossy look but not feel oily, and it has never given me any trouble.  If it is going into storage after shooting in wet conditions (rain or snow, or even after bringing in from sub-zero temps where condensation can be a problem) I will coat things heavily after cleaning as corrosion insurance, but I will wipe it down before using again.

[m25operator]

Since it's FTF, have you been cleaning the magazines as well?

[bdpaz]

My feeling is that you are under lubing but more info would be helpful.  How many rounds do you fire (after cleaning) before you get the feed failures?  Are you slowly firing from the bench or are you burning through magazines practicing for a 3-gun match? Have you talked to other AR shooters in your area?

The oil in Dunk-Kit is for surface protection, not lubrication.  From Cylinder & Slide's web site: "It leaves a very light coat of oil on the firearm that will protect it, however, you will still need to do the proper lubrication...".  I'm new to ARs myself (and I use Dunk-It) but in the six months I have had mine I always oil it up so it is visibly wet and haven't had any problems.

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[gunman42782]

I believe I know the episode you are talking about.  I think it was a Guns And Ammo TV and Dick Metcalf shot several thousand rounds though the gun as fast as he could.  I think if you just shot the gun normally, and did not get it super hot, a normal amount of lube would be plenty.  I usually take a patch wet with CLP and wipe the bolt down.  I have not had any problems, with two different ARs. 

[CybScryb]

My general cleaning is to place the upper receiver in a 4" x 42" PVC contraption I built that is filled with Poly Dunk to soak while I soak the bolt in Hoppe's #9.  After the bolt is cleaned thoroughly, it gets a good soaking in a pan of Poly Dunk or Dunk (depends on which pan is free) and then three drops of oil prior to reassembly.  The barrel is brushed and then cleaned with Butch's Bore Cleaner.  I only apply lube to metal on metal and let the Dunk add it's lubrication while soaking.

A day at the range for the AR only generally involves beetween 300 and 1000 rounds from standing, sitting, prone and some off-hand shots.  Rapid fire doesn't have a lot of appeal as I'm more interested in round placement at this point.  I took the rifle with me while I was out on a service call and was able to stop by the range on the way home today and put 600 rounds through the rifle with no FTF's.

I used the Poly Dunk on my G30 and put four of the smallest drops of grease on metal-on-metal contact points possible.  The Glock has never failed to feed or fire and by my ammo receipts has put something close to 20,000 rounds down range to date.  I do clean all mags for my guns in Dunk or Poly Dunk and tend to dis-assemble the mags and soak all pieces in Dunk and then blow the excess out with compressed air so I don't carry excess lube around picking up dust.

I first heard the Dick Metcalf run it wet on an earlier episode of G & A TV and then again when he put the 10K rounds through the AR.  I tried a variety of lubricants upon moving to the Vegas Valley from Kansas back in '98 with progressively better results and then found Dunk at the 2006 Shot Show and knew I had found the best lube for the desert.  But when I kept getting the FTF's in the AR,  I began to doubt my choice.

I appreciate the suggestions and will try them all.  An unreliable gun just won't cut it, but I haven't found a gun that can't be made reliable given time and patience.

[bdpaz]

If you are shooting 300+ rounds then too little lube is the problem (assuming it is a lube problem!).  Dunk-Kit isn't an operating lubricant and three drops of oil aren't going to last.  As for the dust issue, I think you have to look at carrying versus shooting as covered by Bruce Gray in his article on pistol lubrication.  The small amount of oil/grease desirable for a duty weapon is not enough for an extended range session.  Your G30 is designed to run with a small amount of lube as you described but the bolt of an AR is in a much harsher environment.  A good article on AR maintenance is www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf

I think you will find that your few drops of oil is ideal for storage and will be enough to run a mag or two if necessary, but before going to the range you'll want to get everything that moves good and wet.

[tombogan03884]

My Drill instructors were FANATICS  about minimal lube, they were Nam vets and were talking about combat use

[bdpaz]

My Drill instructors were FANATICS  about minimal lube, they were Nam vets and were talking about combat use

I have absolutely no military experience so I ask this as an honest question, not to be argumentative - did your Drill Instructors fire 500 to 1000 rounds in a combat engagement before cleaning and lubing?  I think we agree that minimal lube is good to keep an AR ready to go when carrying it, but I believe a day at the range or in a training class is a different environment with different requirements.