Dr.Thomas Sowell

[JohnJacobH]

JohnJacobH:
Come back to the real world and put your gerbil back in his cage. 

The real world? It is not my gerbil it is Shakespeare's to start. ( Cry Havoc! and loose the dogs of war!)  A good play. You may want to attend a performance.

OUR real world begins in mid 20th Century when an Army of 6 million Jews and 6 million "undesireables" voted with their feet and walked right into Nazi death camps and died because they had neither the wit nor the will to act to change a very weak movement when it was very, very weak.

They decided to wait for "someone" (the United States) to save them and by time the saviours arrived it was too late.

Fifty years later it matters not if you are a 68 year old levee commissioner in flooded Iowa or a 68 year old woman in New Orleans living peacefully in her home post Katrina. You WILL be mugged by the "authorities" who wear uniforms, carry guns and wear badges, on order of the Mayor or the Governor until they are reassured you WILL comply with whatever THEY think is the law.

We, the peasants, are now blessed with our first widely publicized "faceless bureaucrat" by  name of Lon Horuichi in photographed, fingerprinted and Social Security Numbered America. This Government employee  has been involved in at least (one?) operation where they "killed the children to save them"

You ( and all of us) are exactly one traffic stop, one "code violation", one accounting infraction,one TSA incident  away from discovering this 21st Century Real World  armed with tasers, guns and gulags.

If you think word games between Tweedledee and Tweedledum will somehow magically change this real world overnight in any way but the worst, you live in a fantasy and are unreachable by any normal means of communication.

Live long and  prosper, if you can.

[JohnJacobH]

Please file this under "Things That Make You Say WTF?!?"

Why are you so afraid?

They are just words. By your estimation they are words of a dumb person. So ignore them. Move on.
Enjoy your life. Avoid stupid people in large groups at all cost.

You can not or will not refute them. But somehow you feel compelled to denigrate them.

Seems like a lot of wasted effort to me.

[2HOW]

We should refute the info , not the person, ie Dont shoot the messenger. What makes this forum so good is we can attack the subject , not the poster, .  PLEASE UPHOLD THIS .

[Ron J]

The real world? It is not my gerbil it is Shakespeare's to start. ( Cry Havoc! and loose the dogs of war!)  A good play. You may want to attend a performance.

OUR real world begins in mid 20th Century when an Army of 6 million Jews and 6 million "undesireables" voted with their feet and walked right into Nazi death camps and died because they had neither the wit nor the will to act to change a very weak movement when it was very, very weak.

They decided to wait for "someone" (the United States) to save them and by time the saviours arrived it was too late.

Fifty years later it matters not if you are a 68 year old levee commissioner in flooded Iowa or a 68 year old woman in New Orleans living peacefully in her home post Katrina. You WILL be mugged by the "authorities" who wear uniforms, carry guns and wear badges, on order of the Mayor or the Governor until they are reassured you WILL comply with whatever THEY think is the law.

We, the peasants, are now blessed with our first widely publicized "faceless bureaucrat" by  name of Lon Horuichi in photographed, fingerprinted and Social Security Numbered America. This Government employee  has been involved in at least (one?) operation where they "killed the children to save them"

You ( and all of us) are exactly one traffic stop, one "code violation", one accounting infraction,one TSA incident  away from discovering this 21st Century Real World  armed with tasers, guns and gulags.

If you think word games between Tweedledee and Tweedledum will somehow magically change this real world overnight in any way but the worst, you live in a fantasy and are unreachable by any normal means of communication.

Live long prosper, if you can.

Aristotle once commented that he thought the world (in his time) was going to hell too.  I wonder if anyone ever told him that he was sounding paranoid? 

To this thread, Sowell is on target.  This election is not about the self-perceived reflection of moral or conservative “righteousness” that any of the “peasants” in the electorate have or had.  As Sowell said, it’s about which of two candidates can protect our nation the best. 

[tombogan03884]

The real world? It is not my gerbil it is Shakespeare's to start. ( Cry Havoc! and loose the dogs of war!)  A good play. You may want to attend a performance.

OUR real world begins in mid 20th Century when an Army of 6 million Jews and 6 million "undesireables" voted with their feet and walked right into Nazi death camps and died because they had neither the wit nor the will to act to change a very weak movement when it was very, very weak.

They decided to wait for "someone" (the United States) to save them and by time the saviours arrived it was too late.

Fifty years later it matters not if you are a 68 year old levee commissioner in flooded Iowa or a 68 year old woman in New Orleans living peacefully in her home post Katrina. You WILL be mugged by the "authorities" who wear uniforms, carry guns and wear badges, on order of the Mayor or the Governor until they are reassured you WILL comply with whatever THEY think is the law.

We, the peasants, are now blessed with our first widely publicized "faceless bureaucrat" by  name of Lon Horuichi in photographed, fingerprinted and Social Security Numbered America. This Government employee  has been involved in at least (one?) operation where they "killed the children to save them"

You ( and all of us) are exactly one traffic stop, one "code violation", one accounting infraction,one TSA incident  away from discovering this 21st Century Real World  armed with tasers, guns and gulags.

If you think word games between Tweedledee and Tweedledum will somehow magically change this real world overnight in any way but the worst, you live in a fantasy and are unreachable by any normal means of communication.

Live long prosper, if you can.

You got this one wrong John. Randy Weavers 14 year old son was actually firing at US Marshals who had killed his dog when they killed him, (and one marshal killed the other because they were not PROPERLY trained in fire and movement)
FBI sniper Lon Horuichi killed Weavers WIFE, granted she was holding a baby at the time but the child was unharmed.
While it is only one detail that one inaccuracy could lead others to question your entire chain of reasoning.

[Sponsor]

[JohnJacobH]

You got this one wrong John. Randy Weavers 14 year old son was actually firing at US Marshals who had killed his dog when they killed him, (and one marshal killed the other because they were not PROPERLY trained in fire and movement)
FBI sniper Lon Horuichi killed Weavers WIFE, granted she was holding a baby at the time but the child was unharmed.
While it is only one detail that one inaccuracy could lead others to question your entire chain of reasoning.

There are three or four versions of the story at this site. Pick whichever one you choose to believe. I briefly met and talked with  Randy Weaver and I believe him to be an honest man.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/randy_weaver/12.html





The account by Kevin Harris also comes from a statement he later dictated to Sara:

“Me (Kevin Harris) and Sam followed Striker through the woods until we came out on the road that forks off the one Randy was on.  Striker reached the corner first, then Sam, and then me.  A camouflaged [sic] person was in the road and he shot Striker.  Sam yelled 'You shot Striker, you son of a bitch!' And they pointed a gun at Sam.  Sam opened [sic] fire.  I took cover behind a stump and Sam headed up the road toward home.  It appeared [sic] as though Sam had been wounded in the right arm.  The men were still shooting at Sam, so I shot one of the sons of bitches.  After they killed Sam one of the Fed's jumped out of the woods and for the first time declared he was a federal marshal.  The Fed's then grabbed their wounded and left.  I then headed home up the road and spotted Sam's body laying in the road without a doubt shot in the back.”

In a separate statement later given to the FBI, Harris said that he raised his rifle and fired at Degan after he saw Sammy had been shot.  Harris then heard Degan call out that he had been hit.  Harris claimed that after he fired at Degan, the shooting came to a halt for a few seconds before he heard another shot.  Sammy "yelped," then was silent.  Harris said he fired one more shot in front of a camouflaged man “to scare him."  Harris remained behind the stump "approximately ten more minutes," when he heard "the sound of a vehicle down the hill."  He then retreated to the Weaver house.  About 15 minutes later, Randy and Vicki Weaver, along with Harris, retrieved the body of Sammy Weaver.
   

[JohnJacobH]

Aristotle once commented that he thought the world (in his time) was going to hell too.  I wonder if anyone ever told him that he was sounding paranoid? 

You have met and exceeded your quota of ad hominem with me.  When you can maintain a reasonable level of decorum in our conversations we will resume our talks. Not before.

Until then understand the difference between paranoia and tactical or situational awareness. A deer, a coyote,a racoon, a flock of geese or just about any other critter that moves from the treeline into an open field is not paranoid, they tactically and situationally aware of potential threat. As Colonel Cooper would say: they are in Condition Yellow.

No one said anything about the "world going to hell". The world will be here long after we are all gone just as it was before any of us arrived. 

Nothing in this Presidential Election has any bearing on how much overhanging liability I (and you for that matter) personally face from an overzealous government employee bent on boosting his/her brownie points with an increasingly feral institutional government culture.

Maximum Mike Sullivan is "acting director" of the BAFTE in the Administration of George W. (the Good Republican) Bush.
The President could replace him tomorrow. He chooses not to do so.

Dr. Sowell chooses to make the best of a bad situation. I do not.

If it takes a peak load stress test to diagnose and repair the Constitution then so be it.

Why worry about what I think?  We all know John McCain will win because he has the support of people like you and Thomas
Sowell.  My thoughts are not relevant.

Enough already.

[Ron J]

Aw.  Just when I thought we would go from quoting Julius Caesar to horticulture lessons with Romeo and Juliet.  Hey, you may want to read Shakespeare sometime.   

Ad hominem eh?  Sorry if calling you “paranoid” wounded you.  However, when you post …

“…from an overzealous government employee bent on boosting his/her brownie points with an increasingly feral institutional government culture.”

“You WILL be mugged by the "authorities" who wear uniforms, carry guns and wear badges, on order of the Mayor or the Governor until they are reassured you WILL comply with whatever THEY think is the law.”

“…blessed with our first widely publicized "faceless bureaucrat" by  name of Lon Horuichi in photographed, fingerprinted and Social Security Numbered America. This Government employee  has been involved in at least (one?) operation where they "killed the children to save them".”

“You ( and all of us) are exactly one traffic stop, one "code violation", one accounting infraction,one TSA incident  away from discovering this 21st Century Real World  armed with tasers, guns and gulags.”

… you sound paranoid.  Not any color code of “tactical”.  Just a simple, garden variety of paranoid. 

John, as you glance over your shoulder for the jack-booted ATF thugs or the lucky TSA guard that is begging to give someone an open cavity search, there is hope yet for us to have "reasonable decorum".  We can agree on your closing statement. 

“Why worry about what I think?  We all know John McCain will win because he has the support of people like you and Thomas Sowell.  My thoughts are not relevant.”

[tombogan03884]

There are three or four versions of the story at this site. Pick whichever one you choose to believe. I briefly met and talked with  Randy Weaver and I believe him to be an honest man.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/randy_weaver/12.html





The account by Kevin Harris also comes from a statement he later dictated to Sara:

“Me (Kevin Harris) and Sam followed Striker through the woods until we came out on the road that forks off the one Randy was on.  Striker reached the corner first, then Sam, and then me.  A camouflaged [sic] person was in the road and he shot Striker.  Sam yelled 'You shot Striker, you son of a bitch!' And they pointed a gun at Sam.  Sam opened [sic] fire.  I took cover behind a stump and Sam headed up the road toward home.  It appeared [sic] as though Sam had been wounded in the right arm.  The men were still shooting at Sam, so I shot one of the sons of bitches.  After they killed Sam one of the Fed's jumped out of the woods and for the first time declared he was a federal marshal.  The Fed's then grabbed their wounded and left.  I then headed home up the road and spotted Sam's body laying in the road without a doubt shot in the back.”

In a separate statement later given to the FBI, Harris said that he raised his rifle and fired at Degan after he saw Sammy had been shot.  Harris then heard Degan call out that he had been hit.  Harris claimed that after he fired at Degan, the shooting came to a halt for a few seconds before he heard another shot.  Sammy "yelped," then was silent.  Harris said he fired one more shot in front of a camouflaged man “to scare him."  Harris remained behind the stump "approximately ten more minutes," when he heard "the sound of a vehicle down the hill."  He then retreated to the Weaver house.  About 15 minutes later, Randy and Vicki Weaver, along with Harris, retrieved the body of Sammy Weaver.
   

I don't much care what any one claims, The Autopsy took a 9mm bullet out of the Marshals back that left an entry hole through his BACKpack. Weaver and Co. don't seem to have injured anyone.

[JohnJacobH]

I don't much care what any one claims, The Autopsy took a 9mm bullet out of the Marshals back that left an entry hole through his BACKpack. Weaver and Co. don't seem to have injured anyone.

Okay, so what is the problem?

This is what I said:

This Government employee  has been involved in at least (one?) operation where they "killed the children to save them"

Both you and Harris seem to agreed US Marshalls killed Sam Weaver.  Ipso, ergo and therefore Lon Horiuchi was involved in at least one operation where they "killed the children to save them."

I stand vindicated. As always.