Shoot to kill

[Timothy]

Breaking into your home garage does bring things closer to a threat that will be responded to with force.

You can nit pick me all you want, but leaving valuables in the driveway or on the street is asking for problems, and there is a level of threat that must be met to rise to the level of deadly force.

+1

[Big Frank]

I don't have a garage. I guess that means I'm asking for problems too. If I told you how many vehicles I've had stolen you probably wouldn't believe me. If I caught anyone in the act I'd be tempted to shoot but most likely wouldn't. Every time it cost me thousands of dollars because my insurance doesn't cover replacement costs. If your vehicle is worth less than half of what you paid for it that's all you're getting from the insurance company.

[billt]

I don't have a garage. I guess that means I'm asking for problems too. If I told you how many vehicles I've had stolen you probably wouldn't believe me. If I caught anyone in the act I'd be tempted to shoot but most likely wouldn't. Every time it cost me thousands of dollars because my insurance doesn't cover replacement costs. If your vehicle is worth less than half of what you paid for it that's all you're getting from the insurance company.

This is yet another thing people fail to realize. Insurance doesn't cover the cost of replacing a new vehicle. All of these supposed policies that offer "new car replacement" cost more than they're worth. And they only cover replacement for the first 2 years max. After that you're the one who out, not them.

[mortdooley]

 I just started reading this thread this morning and may have missed some important points! That being said while I don't mean to offend anyone it seems we have too many domesticated people. You spend years paying for a car or anything else and having it stolen should upset you to some degree. If I were on a jury where an owner over reacted and killed a thief I would hang the jury before I would find the owner guilty of anything. 

 Many new cars are keyless and the salesmen are proud of how modern that makes them. If you trade-in your car every 2 years thats great, if you keep one 10 years or more like me it could be a problem. I think there is or will be a phone app to replace the fob you need now. In the future you can drive any car you want, just search the make model and Vin number and off you go, screw the owner!

[Hazcat]

Weren't horse thieves hung?

[Sponsor]

[kmitch200]

Hey KMitch, You really don't get it.
I tone down my comments for this public forum.
You find it easy to class someone you know nothing about as an internet commando, but I don't see you or your ilk suggesting any alternative except submission.

No I do get it. You like to shoot your mouth off and type tough.
The "alternative" YOU suggest is a felony where I live and most likely where you and TAB live. Maybe you don't have anything to lose - house, life savings, wife, family etc., so ending up penniless and in prison is no big deal. It IS a big deal for sane people.
 
"You or your ilk"?
Does that sound anything like, "you find it easy to class someone you know nothing about"?
Pot...kettle...black.

At least I have the courage to take a stand for what I believe, what do you have ?

What I have is the desire to live within the laws of AZ and vote for those that I hope will change them for the better. I also have the brains to know that using deadly force when there isn't a threat of death or great bodily harm is a good way to end up in PRISON FOR DECADES.

And what "stand" have you taken exactly? Have YOU used deadly force in your state to protect only property such as an unoccupied car in the driveway?
If you have, please, share with the class your body count and how much the attorney fees cost you.

[tombogan03884]

Yes Mitch, I do have things to lose. My self respect, and my human dignity.
If you place those in second place behind fear, then there is really no point in your owning a gun since you have already conceded the contest between what's right and what's acceptable to the mob of public opinion.

[billt]

What I have is the desire to live within the laws of AZ and vote for those that I hope will change them for the better. I also have the brains to know that using deadly force when there isn't a threat of death or great bodily harm is a good way to end up in PRISON FOR DECADES.

I don't think anyone here has said anything about taking actions outside the law, in response to theft or burglary. In Arizona you are NOT allowed to use deadly force to protect personal property. That in itself doesn't mean one should sit idly by and allow one's property to be stolen. Simply because they are afraid of what might happen in a direct confrontation. Police don't do that, why should citizens? And they, (law enforcement), are under as much or more scrutiny than citizens are when they are forced to shoot. Their jobs, along with their personal freedoms, are on the line every time they drop the hammer in the line of duty.

In the state of Arizona, you must have legitimate reasons your life is in danger before you shoot anyone. If that fear is real and just, (i.e. the person you're confronting has a weapon, and has acted in a threatening manner), then you must do what you have to in order to defend your life, and stop the threat. With that said, taking the option of letting someone steal your property because of some fear you possess of what might happen to you once you enter the legal system, if you even do, doesn't seem like much of an option. At least not to me. As I mentioned, the police don't sit and let crime just happen because they don't want to risk their careers and jail over the possibility of shooting someone, so why should I or anyone else? That's ludicrous. 

[MikeBjerum]

billt,

You seem to have forgotten that this thread started with TAB's threat to kill over the theft of property with no illegal entrance to the home or threat to life or great bodily harm.  The only "reasonable man" point that may have been reached is hot head, knee jerk reaction.

For me it is not about fear of the legal system, even though that is how I started my warning to TAB concerning his public rant and its potential repercussions, as it is a moral standard of right and wrong.  I cannot find it in me to go outside to confront and kill someone over the theft of stuff.  There is a time to protect life and limb, and there is a time to be the best witness possible and work the system.

[billt]

For me it is not about fear of the legal system, even though that is how I started my warning to TAB concerning his public rant and its potential repercussions, as it is a moral standard of right and wrong. I cannot find it in me to go outside to confront and kill someone over the theft of stuff.

Just because you confront, does not in itself mean you're going to be forced to kill. That is up to the perp. While it is a realistic possibility it could escalate to that, it's doubtful that it would. The only reason it would, is if the thief is willing to do bodily harm to you in order to continue his crime. Most thieves seize on opportunity. They carry burglary tools, not guns. They are not armed robbers. They strike from the shadows, where they think there will be the least, or zero resistance. Or be identified.

 If you are going to bring morality into it, it is morally wrong to steal, period. If you are morally opposed to theft, you have the obligation to stop it. I'm not saying that the police should not be called. However, as is always said, when seconds count, police are just minutes away. If in that time the thief gets away, it's highly unlikely he will be found and prosecuted, and your possessions returned. It just isn't that high on the list of today's overloaded, under funded police departments. Also, with todays poor economy, many police departments have response times that are off the chart for these type of crimes. The thief will have your stuff fenced and sold by the time they get around to you.

Moral and financial reasons, as well as common sense, would tell me that armed confrontation is not only necessary, it is the right and proper thing to do. If more did, it would without question reduce crime. As I stated in an earlier post, what would have happened in Ferguson the night the verdict was read, if the police shot the first 3 looters they saw? As Jeff Cooper once stated, "85% of all bad guys just hate being shot."