The Republican Debate ?

[tombogan03884]

It is really unlikely to matter who wins the election since we are already in the same economic situation as Greece. We are up to our ass in unsustainable debt aimed at pacifying a culture of parasites who when told that we must cut their benefits to preserve the nation will riot just like in Greece  and France over the past few years, instead the "liberals" will try to give more bribes to parasites and illegal aliens.
No matter who wins the election they will be crushed by the financial collapse that is already beginning with the recent default of Porto Rico.
It's exactly the same thing that happened to Hoover, who was in office when previous liberal policies caused the depression, and GW Bush when the idiotic policies of the Clinton administration caused the housing market to collapse.
There's nothing any one can do now except prepare to survive the turmoil .

[billt]

As much as I hate to admit it Tom, you're probably right.

[Solus]

You need to start saying    "you're probably not wrong"

In any case, I have to agree....

Short of a "radical" change in how "politics as usual" is done, that is where we are heading.

Worry I have is that I'm sure Putin or Jinping would be very willing to help quell any turmoil in the United States

Perhaps that would be a good thing.....if it unites the country against a common foe.....but I think too many would welcome that change in type of government.

Gonna come down to which side the military comes down on early in the game.

[tombogan03884]

Solus, you haven't been paying attention.
Falling oil prices have hurt Russia's economy which was never that stable to begin with, besides, Vladamir has his own problems much closer to home. As for China, much the same thing, only worse . They have devalued the Yaun twice in the last few months and are facing famines and open uprisings through out the country on top of the unrest in Hong Kong that the media reports. No one will interfere with us because when we go all go.
We're not talking about another depression.
We're talking about a new dark ages.

[Solus]

That cheers me up.

Now I understand why you intend to do what you can to bring on the collapse.

[Sponsor]

[billt]

If there is any silver lining in this horrifically dark cloud, it's the fact misery loves company. If we go down, both China and Russia will suffer worse. Most all of the other countries world wide, especially Europe, will all tumble like dominoes. About the only countries that won't know what's going on will be in Africa. They're already at zero and starving.

[Rastus]

<snip>
And as far as health care. Do you really think if Obama Care wasn't passed, it would be any cheaper or more available?

Absolutely on price.  Available maybe not but I did not see people dying in the street laws down south where required people get care without insurance so I was paying for them before but without the insurance profits and burgeoning government administrative costs and requirements.  Before Obamacare passed our corporate rate was $1,152/month (2013) including employee portion.  Care was the best then...it's gone down since.  Law got passed along with all of the crap in it next year jumped to $1,654/month.  It's now $1950+/- with a $640/month employee contribution.  You tell me if it went up....

Obamacare was welfare for insurance companies and drug companies to get them to love the communist/socialist way.....useful idiots in a corporate sense.  You did know that...didn't you?

What the insurance provides as a benefit is drastically down....i.e. my costs are up, up, up.  I could have opted for a $350/month lesser plan (the $1,950 company contribution did not change) but with the cancer my wife had I opted for the better plan which paid out the higher premium.  If there had been no Obamacare and regular insurance increases the total monthly total premium would have been below $1,500 and with better coverage.

So yes, the cost went up the coverage went down.  End of story....and not just my little company across the board.  So now, when I hire someone (remember that economy thing) their salary and benefits come into play.  A new employee needs to generate over $25,000 a year in profit just to cover his health, dental and life insurance costs.   Gee, what happened to the good jobs in the US?

Hey, I want my employees and fellow employees to live well and have a great retirement on a good 401k plan.  Money for their family for a nice home, cars, education whatever they want for their lifestyle.  But doubling insurance to get less benefit helped no one who was working (have you ever wondered what happened to the recovery that wasn't).  And no, unless someone is a communist why should anyone believe they are entitled to someone else's hard earned paycheck to get free care for just because they breath....the states should decide how to handle that if at all.

Don't pay attention to that guy behind the curtain....i.e., don't ask where coverage stops on covering cancer, a heart attack, organ transplant, stroke, etc....focus your eyes on getting those band aids from the doctor how much that saves compared to ER....whoo boy did the masses go for that and take it in the backside. 

Hey, you get free condom's now....HOORAY....what a win for the little guy.  And that wart you need off, hey hardly any money at all now paid for by my employees...gee Mom's got cancer and the coverage doesn't stops at $50k or doesn't cover all of the treatment...what are we gonna do?  Go celebrate with one of your free condoms, of course.

So... thank you RINO's for stuffing your pockets with insurance and drug company money while you destroy our country.  And people wonder why the guys with increasing support in the presidential Republican race are counter-establishment candidates.

Did you really not know that insurance costs were through the roof?  Talk about unsustainable debt.

[billt]

Absolutely on price.  Available maybe not but I did not see people dying in the street laws down south where required people get care without insurance so I was paying for them before but without the insurance profits and burgeoning government administrative costs and requirements.  Before Obamacare passed our corporate rate was $1,152/month (2013) including employee portion.  Care was the best then...it's gone down since.  Law got passed along with all of the crap in it next year jumped to $1,654/month.  It's now $1950+/- with a $640/month employee contribution.  You tell me if it went up....

Did you really not know that insurance costs were through the roof?  Talk about unsustainable debt.

It would have gone up anyway. Obama Care just gave everyone something to blame it on. I am 62 and my wife just turned 60. I'm currently paying over $14,000.00 a year for both her and I. So I'm well aware of the cost. And I was just informed by my present carrier, (Assurant Health), that my coverage will end on 12/31/15. They are getting out of the health care business all together...... The reason?  Obama Care. So after the 1st of the year, I'm sure I'll be paying even more, assuming I can even get it at any price.

All of that means nothing because as I said, it would have gone up anyway. The health care system in this country is going 100 MPH down a dead end road. With or without Obama Care. 2 reasons. Lack of being able to shop across state lines, and tort reform. Until you have both sales competition, and law suit protection for doctors and hospitals, you are going to have high, unaffordable health care cost, regardless of who runs it. That will NEVER change. You don't even hear politicians discussing it. Trump has only mentioned opening up the market across state lines once. He has never mentioned tort reform. I doubt he would get either passed because both Houses are filled with both lobbyists for the health care industry, and both are packed full of lawyers. They will pass nothing that would hurt their brothers in arms.

Until you stop all of these law suits against doctors and hospitals, cost will be out of control until, much like our economy, you have total collapse of the industry. And that is coming. The one thing Obama Care has done is allow people with pre existing conditions to be insured without penalty. And that is a 2 edged sword. It raises the cost even higher across the board, but it allows the people who need the coverage the most, to be able to get it. Otherwise the insurance companies will only insure the healthiest people. Too many are not. So they are forced to go without it. When they get sick everyone else must pay for their treatment. This strains a weakened, failing system even further.

There is no solution to this unless they employ tort reform and interstate shopping. And as I mentioned, that will NEVER happen. Instead they'll go to a full single payer plan, i.e. Socialized Medicine. Which is what they, (both Republicans and Democrats), wanted from the get go. The Dems were just more vocal about it, because it fit within their party narrative. This was all planned long before Obama Care was passed. All Obama Care is going to do is accelerate the whole process. No one in their right mind ever thought Obama Care would work, any more than a total gun ban would. So they designed it as a "first step". And where have we heard that before? Obama Care, "kicks the can down the road". But the guy kicking it is looking well beyond where that can lands.

[tombogan03884]

What Rastus and Bill are both missing is the effect on employment. With the rise of Obamacare hiring slowed, Full time hiring nearly died.
The govt tell you unemployment is 5.5%.
Bullshit.
If that were the case "work force participation", the percentage of able bodied workers in the work force, would be 94.5%.
It isn't. It's around 60%.
...
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-warren-buffett-economy-why-its-days-are-numbered-part-4/

At the present time, there are 210 million adult Americans between the ages of 16 and 68—to take a plausible measure of the potential work force. That amounts to 420 billion potential labor hours, if we accept the convention that all adults are at least theoretically capable of holding a full-time job (2,000 hours/year) and pulling their share of society’s need for production and work effort.

By contrast, during 2014 only 240 billion hours were actually supplied to the US economy, according to the BLS estimates. Technically, therefore, there were 180 billion unemployed labor hours, meaning that the real unemployment rate was 42.9%, not 5.5%!
........................................................more at link....................................

To put that 42.9% in focus, at the height of the great depression
" Unemployment in the U.S. rose to 25%, and in some countries rose as high as 33%.[5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression
Even under the lethargic mismanagement of that peanut pulling POS carter the unemployment rate was only around 25%.
Wait and see where that goes when minimum wage is hiked to $15/hour.
What we are watching is the death throws of a once great nation that has degenerated to a bunch of sniveling offended asexual's  who are caught in a monkey trap, they are to stupid, lazy, and greedy to let go of the "free shit" in order to pull their hand out of the trap.

[billt]

A lot of companies aren't hiring because Obama has the corporate tax rate too high, (35%, the highest in the world). So instead of investing in the corporations with new jobs and equipment, they're parking billions of dollars offshore to avoid the tax rate. If Republicans get in and lower the tax rate, all that cash will start busting loose, and there will be more jobs than there are talented people to fill them..... Which is already a problem. I know for a fact it was where I worked, and still is.

As far as employer paid health care insurance, it is slowly disappearing in favor of worthless, cheap $h!t, "Health Savings Accounts". All of which will disappear after 5 minutes in the Emergency Room. Again, all part of the plan to adopt a single payer plan. Remember, BOTH Republicans AND Democrats want this. Politicians will never reject a power grab. Especially when it controls something so vital as health care, along with putting over 1/5th of the nations economy in direct government control.