Remington 17 Fireball

[Rastus]

So later on during 2017 I'm thinking I will see some daylight and be able to actually buy a gun.  I'm looking towards the Remington 17 Fireball as a turtle, snake, varmint gun. 

I remember when the 17 Remington came out with news around 1970 with velocities exceeding the revered 220 Swift...it was like sacrilege.  Well, I like that too but the full sized case to get an extra 200-400 FPS plus what I figure will be increased muzzle blast is steering me away from that.

I know the .204 Ruger is a strong contender but I'm wondering about other 17 caliber cartridges using reduced case sizes pushing 4,000 FPS.  Remington seems to have abandoned the 17 Fireball but that's OK by me....maybe there is something better our there.  I'm not worried about not having cases because if I go with a wildcat that's better I'll have a hard time there too...I'll buy plenty while the buying opportunity is there and reload. 

What's out there...anyone have any favorites?  This is going to be a sit in the back yard and zero out snakes and turtles gun from 75-175 yards....yes I do have a couple of 17 HMR's but the fireball is like a laser in the ranges I'll be shooting.

Opinions?  Recommendations?

[billt]

If it's a small caliber varmint round you're after, it's pretty damn hard to beat the .223 / 5.56 MM. Brass is all but free, and can be picked up on most any range. Factory ammo is available in most any grade, weight, and bullet type imaginable. The round is accurate, and comes in any action type, barrel length, and price range you could ask for.

As an example, I grabbed this Marlin X-7 this past year for a song. (I think I paid under $250.00 for it). The first thing I did with it was to ditch the cheap molded plastic stock it came with, for a nice completely finished Laminated Thumbhole Stock for it from Boyd's for $99.00, that was a perfect drop in fit. I topped it off with a Nikon P-223 scope sitting in Burris Signature Zee Rings, and it shoots into one ragged hole for as long as I want to sit there squeezing the trigger. (Which is very good by the way, and similar to the Savage Accu-Trigger). I doubt I have $400 total in the whole rig. From a cost standpoint that's pretty hard to beat. That's just one example of how far your hard earned dollars go with the .223.

[TAB]

i have a rem 17( none fireball version)  its a 4000 fps rodent destroyer.    I know some guys use it coyotes too. 

[Big Frank]

Hornady claims the .17 Hornet has a trajectory comparable to a 55 gr 223 Rem, but the felt recoil of a 22 WMR. It's supposed to be good out to 300 yards and has less barrel wear than other .17 center fires especially with the 25 grain bullet which is less than $1 a pop. http://www.hornady.com/store/17-Hornet

[tombogan03884]

Count me with Bill, since it's a military round there is a lot more variety in guns, and ammo and it gets a lot more research put into things like bullet design and loads.
Why work to have some "almost as good as" when the bench mark it's falling a little sort of is so available.
On the otherhand, if you're just a .17 fan, that would be a different matter.

[Sponsor]

[billt]

I'm not sure about this, so don't take it as gospel. But I've read that the .17 centerfires have a lot more trouble with flyers and general inaccuracy due to bore fouling. The .17 HMR, not so much.

[TAB]

If you are destorying a prairie dog colony. Firing 100s of rounds maybe, but thats not been my exp.  That being said, its a very small and light bullet.   I do know that if your reloading is not super anal, you will have issues.

[Rastus]

Bill you may be on to something here.  I ran a 20 grain 17 Fireball and a 40 grain .223 together at 125 yd zero.  The 223 is flatter than I thought it would be at 3,700 fps.  I'll need to optimize the zero distance for 223 but for comparison to the 17 I left them the same in the table below

First column is yards and then the A's are 17 Fireball and the B's are 223.  So if I get to move to where I want to live in a few months, I'll be shooting snakes and turtles at 70-130 yards.  I will be shooting slightly down from about 8-15 feet of elevation and two miles through the swamp (wooded cypress swamp) civilization starts (and at 35-45' above the level I'm shooting at).  So, that's where the 17 really came in because it bleeds energy like no one's business and blows up. And so 223 ballistic tip blows up too.

What I really wanted is something I can aim center of mass on (snake body, turtle head) and hit them at 70 to 130 yards like a laser.  The 223 may do it but then that 17 bleeds off energy quicker. 

I probably need to reconnoiter the 204 Ruger.  It may be the best choice because it bleeds energy faster than 223 but is still a "laser".  Looks like Remington is turning it's back on it's own...the 17 Fireball so if I go 17 it may be the full size 17 they've had forever.   But, I already have 223 and reloading equipment.

Range   Drop(inch)        Velocity              Energy   Wind drift  (inches)   Time  (milliseconds)
              A          B     A             B            A      B               A                B           A   B
0   -1.4954   -1.4950   3999   3699   710   1215   0.0000   0.0000   0   0
5   -1.3597   -1.3484   3966   3673   698   1198   0.0000   0.0000   4   4
10   -1.2296   -1.2083   3933   3647   687   1181   0.0000   0.0000   8   8
15   -1.1051   -1.0747   3900   3622   675   1165   0.0000   0.0000   12   13
20   -0.9863   -0.9477   3867   3596   664   1148   0.0000   0.0000   16   17
25   -0.8733   -0.8275   3835   3571   653   1132   0.0000   0.0000   19   21
30   -0.7663   -0.7140   3803   3546   642   1117   0.0000   0.0000   23   25
35   -0.6652   -0.6075   3772   3521   632   1101   0.0000   0.0000   27   29
40   -0.5702   -0.5080   3740   3496   621   1085   0.0000   0.0000   31   34
45   -0.4815   -0.4156   3709   3472   611   1070   0.0000   0.0000   35   38
50   -0.3991   -0.3304   3678   3447   601   1055   0.0000   0.0000   39   42
55   -0.3231   -0.2525   3647   3423   591   1040   0.0000   0.0000   43   47
60   -0.2536   -0.1820   3616   3399   581   1026   0.0000   0.0000   48   51
65   -0.1908   -0.1191   3586   3375   571   1012   0.0000   0.0000   52   55
70   -0.1348   -0.0638   3556   3351   561   997   0.0000   0.0000   56   60
75   -0.0856   -0.0162   3526   3327   552   983   0.0000   0.0000   60   64
80   -0.0434   0.0235   3497   3303   543   969   0.0000   0.0000   64   69
85   -0.0083   0.0552   3467   3280   534   955   0.0000   0.0000   69   74
90   0.0196   0.0789   3438   3256   525   941   0.0000   0.0000   73   78
95   0.0401   0.0944   3409   3233   516   928   0.0000   0.0000   78   83
100   0.0531   0.1015   3380   3210   507   915   0.0000   0.0000   82   87
105   0.0585   0.1002   3351   3187   499   902   0.0000   0.0000   86   92
110   0.0562   0.0904   3323   3164   490   889   0.0000   0.0000   91   97
115   0.0460   0.0719   3295   3141   482   876   0.0000   0.0000   95   102
120   0.0278   0.0445   3267   3119   474   864   0.0000   0.0000   100   106
125   0.0014   0.0083   3239   3096   466   851   0.0000   0.0000   105   111
130   -0.0332   -0.0371   3211   3074   458   839   0.0000   0.0000   109   116
135   -0.0763   -0.0916   3184   3052   450   827   0.0000   0.0000   114   121
140   -0.1279   -0.1555   3157   3029   443   815   0.0000   0.0000   119   126
145   -0.1883   -0.2288   3129   3007   435   803   0.0000   0.0000   123   131
150   -0.2575   -0.3117   3103   2986   428   792   0.0000   0.0000   128   136

[PegLeg45]

Count me with Bill, since it's a military round there is a lot more variety in guns, and ammo and it gets a lot more research put into things like bullet design and loads.
Why work to have some "almost as good as" when the bench mark it's falling a little sort of is so available.
On the otherhand, if you're just a .17 fan, that would be a different matter.

I also agree with Bill and Tom.

The .204 would be a compromise, but I still lean to the .223 myself. I have a single shot .223 that with 55gr HP's is quite the turtle destroyer.


Don't forget the .22-250 if you decide you later on want to extend the shooting distances beyond what you listed in the OP.

[Rastus]

I forgot about the dang 22-250 and I have one of them.  Haven't shot it in 8-9 years.

Probably need to clean it...

And yes, see what the ballistics are in my range of interest.

However...I'm still leaning toward the 20 grain bullets and how they blow apart and drop at range.