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Author Topic: Advice on defensive shotgun loads  (Read 10572 times)

2HOW

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Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« on: September 03, 2008, 07:31:04 PM »
Im gonna build up my 1300 and along with mechanical improvements I want some tips on ammo. I have come to the conclusion that 00 buck is the load to use but what about things like hardened shot and buffers to keep the shot from deforming too soon? all advice will be welcome. also advice on slugs for a cylinder bore 18" barrel..
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sanjuancb

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 08:02:51 PM »
Copper or nickel-plated shot is preferred because of the lubricity. It doesn't deform as much and either chilled lead or high antimony lead and produces better patterns. In addition, buffers will result in better patterns. However, buffers can do odd things to pressure levels and the loading must be adjusted accordingly. 00 buck is the industry standard and pretty much can't be beat (exempting odd situations). However, if you would like to up the effectiveness of your weapon, Hevi-Shot buckshot can be purchased (at a hefty price). Its density is greater than lead and it basically the Holy Grail of shot. If you really want to get the most out of a shotshell load, you're going to need to get into reloading. MEC single-stage reloaders are a good starting point and Ballistic Products offers a good variety of wads that will allow you to tailor a load to your specifications. Many people consider cylinder bore acceptable for most situations, however, I am an adamant believer in screw-in chokes. Good luck and have fun!
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twyacht

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 08:26:04 PM »
Hey 2HOW, Rob Pincus at the Valhalla Elk Mountain training facility in Co, and his ICE training, ran through this scenario with shotguns for home defense.http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1322226816

Since your post didn't mention what type of application you want, target, clays, hunting, SD, etc,.. if I'm missing the mark, I apologize and just disregard.

For a home defense environment, Pincus demonstrated with walls, halls, bedrooms, and simulated badguys, the effects of different 2 3/4" and 3" rounds in the home with standard construction, 2X4 studs, and sheetrock walls.

Surprisingly to me, #9 , 2 3/4" shot created the most damage at close range, (less than 7 yards), without overpenetration into an adjoining bedroom where one could have the rest of the family in a safe room type scenario.

Slugs WILL work, no question. Depends on your residential environment, neighbors, kids, the mother-in-law, (nevermind) ::)

#2, 00 Buckshot, 9 pellet was the next choice.  But all work. His point was TACTICS. Stalking the BG with a 1300, as you know, requires a really good sense of who,what and where.

Your talking about one of the most powerful defensive platforms at close range on the planet.

Hardened shot and buffers won't make a difference in the home defense scenario. The lethality will be well, its a shotgun at close range,...

If you were referring to another type of application, other than home defense, I apologize.

 My Rem 870 is kept "close" with #2, 00 Buck, staggered with #9, and the last 2 are 3" Sabot Slugs, if it has to get to that point, increase the damage potential, until I get my "black rifle". I hope it never gets to that point at all, but I am a firm advocate of the castle doctrine.

Again, sorry if I misunderstood your post.

Just my .02 cents.
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twyacht

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 08:37:21 PM »
I saw the "defensive" loads in the title,.. sorry. My bad.
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Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
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sanjuancb

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 09:15:30 PM »
A lot depends on the range. Bird shot may work at 10 feet well, buffers and premium shot can extend the range out to about 70 yards, but that seems a bit more offensive than defensive...
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"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #5 on: Today at 12:53:09 AM »
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2HOW

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2008, 01:00:16 PM »
Im thinkin out to about 50 yards max , not worried about collateral damage. there are slugs and rifled slugs right? no rifled slugs for cyinder bore right?  what is the least amount of pellets in 00 buck ? is it 9 ? I thought you could go as low as 4?  what advantage does 3" have over 2 3/4 ?
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twyacht

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2008, 01:53:34 PM »
Pretty good specs and data on this Remington LEO section.

http://www.remingtonle.com/ammo/ss_tac8.htm

8 pellet, 1325 fps. 2 3/4"

Difference between 2 3/4 + 3? Not much for SD.

 What limits a shotgun is chamber pressure. The high velocity slugs in 2 3/4" are pretty much maxing out the chamber pressure with great accuracy. The 3" slugs are using a slower burning magnum powder to gain a slightly higher muzzle velocity (sometimes), however, the 2 3/4" seem to be more accurate and many are actually faster than the 3" mags. Check out the ballistics on some of the newer sabot slugs in 2 3/4". I don't mind the recoil at all and have shot almost every slug out there to find the best performing out of my gun. So far the 2 3/4" have been the most accurate, fastest, and hardest kicking.

Who or whatever is on the receiving end of either size, won't matter. 
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Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

ratcatcher55

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2008, 03:06:16 PM »
For what it's worth, I have liked the Federal LE 132 00 Buck.

I load only 00 in the magazine. I carry 5 slugs on a butt pouch and practice exchanging slugs for buckshot if the need would arise to take on targets over 30 yards.  With a little practice not very hard and pretty quick with an 870.

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Big Frank

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2008, 04:44:29 PM »
The 1300 is a nice shotgun. We had those in the army. For your range full-power 00 Buck would be hard to beat. I like the non-magnum 9-pellet loads. It will likely do better with something other than Cylinder bore. Improved Cylinder is almost always better for slugs and shot. Most of the high-tech slugs require a rifled barrel or rifled choke tube to live up to their reputation. Brenneke and Foster type rifled slugs are good for smoothbores. Buffered shot is mostly to avoid deformation going through the choke that you don't even have. They're a waste of money IMO.
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PegLeg45

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Re: Advice on defensive shotgun loads
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2008, 06:10:41 PM »
Quote from: 2HOW on September 03, 2008, 07:31:04 PM
Im gonna build up my 1300 and along with mechanical improvements I want some tips on ammo. I have come to the conclusion that 00 buck is the load to use but what about things like hardened shot and buffers to keep the shot from deforming too soon? all advice will be welcome. also advice on slugs for a cylinder bore 18" barrel..

Good choice in shotguns.
I have a 1300 Defender with the 8-shot tube.
I load 3 rounds of Remington #4 pheasant loads, then 3 rounds of Remington 00 Buck, and 2 rounds of Winchester Slugs.
I hope I never need it, but I think it will help me get the job done....or....at least get me to more firepower.

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