Brand Loyalty

[alfsauve]

I posted this thought in a S&W FaceBook forum and thought it might also be of some interest here as well.   The idea is one of cults, or at least fanaticism.    I've modified my original to include other gun brands.   What kind of fanatic are you?

I'm thinking that S&W/Colt/1911/Glock/Sig/... lovers are similar to Harley fans. The company doesn't always turn out a perfect product, but we love them and are willing to stick with them through better and not so good.   We complain about them but keep coming back to them.

When I was taking a marketing course the class was asked to pick and defend the company with the strongest brand loyalty. I chose Harley D and my defense was that it was one of the few companies whose customers are willing to wear company logo as a tattoo.  I'm think S&W/Colt/1911/Glock/Sig/...  also rates up there in brand loyalty.

[tombogan03884]

Actually, a Ruger eagle would make a pretty cool tattoo.  LOL

[billt]

I have to agree somewhat with the Harley analogy. But comparing The newer Harley Evolution V-Twin today, to a Pan Head or old Shovel Head, (think Easy Rider), is much like comparing a modern 2017, 5.7 or 6.4 HEMI pushrod V-8, to a old dual quad, 1969, 426 HEMI back in the day. Today's HEMI still runs on the same principal. But is just as or more powerful, with far greater longevity and dependability. Same with the Harley.

It's much the same with older designed guns. Today's modern manufactured 1911's run far more dependably than the older versions. And they're far more accurate. Things like better close tolerance CNC machining to eliminate "tolerance stacking", have improved out of the box 1911 performance and accuracy in leaps and bounds. It has also kept costs down by eliminating a lot of hand work. In the "old days" they increased dependability by simply making them sloppier, to the point they damn near rattled when you shook them.

That said, it's a design that cannot be shortcut or drastically modified without creating issues. I still wouldn't trust a "chopped" 1911 as a self defense weapon. Modern machining and all. These guns are well made. (Enough to make me want to own one). But I still would not trust one enough for self defense carry. As a range toy they're fine. Browning's designs did not fair well to downsizing, or to be changed into something they're not.

The whole thing today is ease and quickness of manufacturing, in order to keep profitability high. That is very hard to do with a 1911. Although outfits like Rock Island Armory have produced some excellent, dependable, low cost 1911's. Polymer guns take over here. Glocks, Springfield XD's, the whole H&K Polymer line, Ruger with their ever changing Polymer handgun lineup, and the S&W M&P have taken profitability to new levels. The stock prices of these companies reflect this. So the bottom line is old school, all machined steel still works. They just usually weigh more, and usually cost more. Because they can't, "Make em' cheap, and Stack em' deep", as they can their plastic molded counterparts. 

[MikeBjerum]

I believe that most "gun people" are brand oriented.  There are many choices, but we have our favorites, and we will either accept or ignore the short comings due to loyalty.

Harley lovers today still ignore the ancient concept behind their brand.  I would like to have a Harley, because there is much I like about them.  However, even though they have made improvements and advanced in technology, they still require the continual routine adjustments that most companies did away with 50 years ago.  Who, but a pilot or died in the wool HD lover, thinks it is normal to take your bike in continually for inspections and adjustments on valves and timing chains?

Look to Rob Pincus and his obsession with Glock that is only tempered by some ok it will do acceptance of some other striker fired guns.

[tombogan03884]

Bill must be drunk. Or else he doesn't know anything about JMB.
Wouldn't trust a 1911 for EDC ? Really ?  Designs don't modify, or down size well ?? Really ?
Ever heard of the FN 1900  .32 ? It basically invented the idea of universal carry in "civilization" and defined what a semi auto should be. The 1911 is the only pistol to be in production for over a hundred years steady with no meaningful change in design . Not to mention that 3 of the 4 most common pistol cartridges of the last 110 years were all designed by the same JMB, 32 acp, 45 acp, and.380 as for simplification, look at JMB's last work , the Hi Power.
I won't even go into how he saved 3 of the largest gun makers in the world, Winchester, Colt, and FN.

[Sponsor]

[billt]

Bill must be drunk. Or else he doesn't know anything about JMB.
Wouldn't trust a 1911 for EDC ? Really ?  Designs don't modify, or down size well ?? Really ?
Ever heard of the FN 1900  .32 ? It basically invented the idea of universal carry in "civilization" and defined what a semi auto should be. The 1911 is the only pistol to be in production for over a hundred years steady with no meaningful change in design . Not to mention that 3 of the 4 most common pistol cartridges of the last 110 years were all designed by the same JMB, 32 acp, 45 acp, and.380 as for simplification, look at JMB's last work , the Hi Power.
I won't even go into how he saved 3 of the largest gun makers in the world, Winchester, Colt, and FN.

I said, I wouldn't trust a CHOPPED 1911. And neither do several other people who train people with guns for a living.... And if you want to carry a .32 for personal protection, you better have a razor in your shoe for backup. Like, "Leroy Brown".... And the Hi-Power is anything but a downsized gun.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P0edDYdqXU&t=10s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfJj90eNIfE

[Timothy]

The rattletrap circa 50's era 1911A1 was good enuf for me to qual fer my expert marksman medal back in 78 on a standard 25 yard range and the Navy standard rule of the day!

[billt]

Look to Rob Pincus and his obsession with Glock that is only tempered by some ok it will do acceptance of some other striker fired guns.

I don't think guys like Pincus and Yeager are "obsessed" with Glocks. Rather, they have been convinced, over a period of years, along with thousands of students, who have fired millions of rounds of ammunition, that they work well, malfunction little, and are easy to both operate and train people on. Not to mention most anyone can afford them. I would feel the same if I experienced what they have, for as long as they have.

[tombogan03884]

I don't like Pincus, and Yeager is a menace to his students whose name should not even be used by responsible gun owners as anything but a bad example. That being said, the Glock is the culmination of 500 years of hand gun mechanical, and manufacturing, technology We each may have preferences in features, materials, or shapes, but Glock is the pinnacle of mass market reliable hand guns and any of the polymer frame, striker fired pistols since then are nothing but followers. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, it's just that Glock has perfected the balance of minimal machining, simplicity of mechanism while maintaining accuracy and reliability. Glock is probably the best balance of function and price on the market today.
And I happen to be more comfortable with a 1911 because I prefer the single action trigger and have far more experience with it.

[Timothy]

Yea, I questioned Pincus' resume once and he didn't like it much and never did answer the question.  I expect he's a fine shooter but his ego is a tad too overblown.