Author Topic: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?  (Read 1013 times)

Big Frank

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10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« on: August 21, 2018, 12:31:31 AM »
In this review of a Les Baer Custom 10mm 1911, the staff of On Target Magazine is way off target if I'm not mistaken. They said the 10mm puts out more than twice the kinetic energy of the .45 ACP. I checked ballistics of both calibers using the same type of bullets from some of the biggest ammo companies. I didn't see more than double the energy from the 10mm with the same type of bullet from the same company.

I saw for example, the 165gr CORBON 45 Auto +P Self-Defense JHPs I have and the 10mm 165gr CORBON Self-Defense JHPs are both listed as 573 ft-lbs. The 10mm 155gr DPX has 496 ft-lbs and the 45 Auto +P 185gr DPX is 475 ft-lbs, giving the 10mm 4.4% greater power. The 45 Auto 160gr DPX, which isn't +P, has 392 ft-lbs, making the 10mm 26.5% more powerful. Nowhere near 100+%.

I saw similar figures from other ammo makers too. Comparing different types of ammo for different purposes is, unsurprisingly, a different story. When comparing totally different loads, you could say a .44 Magnum is only 5.5% more powerful than a .357 Magnum (.44 Rem Magnum 165gr CORBON Self-Defense JHP vs .357 Magnum 200gr Hard Cast). But comparing the same types of bullets, does anyone make a 10mm load that's more than double the energy of .45 ACP, standard or +P, that they also make? Or are these guys smoking crack?

https://ontargetmagazine.com/2018/08/les-baer-premier-ii-10mm-5-1911/
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

les snyder

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2018, 07:51:56 AM »
I think some of the problem is when people start plugging values into the kinetic energy formula where the velocity is squared, and really jacks up the result .... E(k)= 1/2 mv^2      mass x velocity x velocity / 2

my source at SOCOM said the value should be closer to v to the 1.5 power... my head hurts too much when I try to use logarithms  :)

Big Frank

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2018, 09:38:39 AM »
Logarithms. I haven't even used that word in a long, long time.

Underwood Ammo and Doubletap Ammunition both have high powered pistol ammo. The highest power .45 ACP load I've ever seen that wasn't +P was Doubletap's 185 grain Bonded Defense JHP with 592 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Their 10mm 155 grain Bonded Defense has 749 ft-lbs, making it 26.5% more powerful.

Underwood's .45 ACP 120 grain Xtreme Defender round has 465 ft-lbs of muzzle energy and their 10 mm 100 grain Xtreme Defender has 740 ft-lbs. That's an impressive 59% more muzzle energy, but still nowhere near 100+%.

Twice the muzzle energy of Doubletap's 592 ft-lb .45 ACP round would be 1184 ft-lbs. Does anyone in the known universe make 10mm ammo with over 1184 ft-lbs of muzzle energy?
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

robert69

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2018, 10:31:13 AM »
All that I can say is I would like to know what product they were smoking while they were figuring this out, and where were they getting their information from.
I own two 10mm's, both 6 inch barrels.
I load for accuracy, and I use the Sierra software for calculations, G1.
Real chronographed loads, 180 grain bullet, at 1276 fps (not beating the pistols up,)
The load is 13.2 accurate #9.
11.0 grains accurate #7 is the same velocity.
You get 650 ME at the muzzle, and at 25 yards 582.
Warm loads, but not wrist breaking.
This load is very accurate, and very consistent.

The original goal of the 10mm was to equal the .357 mag, with more rounds in the firearm.
This you can do, but double the .45, I doubt it.
I remember a video of a guy shooting a 600 nitro in a pistol, but he had to chase the pistol after he fired it.
The 180 grain weight  bullet is very accurate, so I don't bother with the 200 grain.
You can get close to double the ME over a .45, but not in a 10mm, unless it has a very long
barrel, and pierced primers, broken brass, a lot of powder jammed into a case.

TAB

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2018, 04:29:57 PM »
I have de  that likes the 200s and one that likes the 180s.  For carry 200
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 10:50:59 PM »

tombogan03884

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2020, 03:35:48 PM »
I don't know the math, but a little smaller going a little faster should be about the same.
I'm the NRA, and I ain't giving up squat.

Big Frank

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2020, 10:32:38 PM »
All else being equal, smaller diameter moving faster = more penetration, but not a whole lot more energy.

It's good seeing you on here Tom. As a friend sometimes tells me, opinions vary. ;) I was checking out the sights on Mackinac Island on Google Maps Thursday. I saw this place on there and it reminded me of you.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

tombogan03884

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2020, 08:10:25 AM »
A lot better than the darned Aussies post   ;D
I'm the NRA, and I ain't giving up squat.

Big Frank

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Re: 10mm more than double the energy of a .45 ACP?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 07:40:15 AM »
A lot better than the darned Aussies post   ;D

 ;D ;D ;D
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

 

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