What to expect under a socialist health care system

[Fatman]

 Have a disease or condition that costs a lot in time and money to treat? Older?

And this guy is a doctor who moved to Australia to help out...

Australia: No residency for boy with Down syndrome
By TANALEE SMITH, Associated Press Writer Tanalee Smith, Associated Press Writer 2 hrs 3 mins ago

SYDNEY, Australia – A German doctor hoping to gain permanent residency in Australia said Friday he will fight an immigration department decision denying his application because his son has Down syndrome.

Bernhard Moeller came to Australia with his family two years ago to help fill a doctor shortage in a rural area of Victoria state.

His temporary work visa is valid until 2010, but his application for permanent residency was rejected this week. The immigration department said Moeller's 13-year-old son, Lukas, "did not meet the health requirement."

"A medical officer of the Commonwealth assessed that his son's existing medical condition was likely to result in a significant and ongoing cost to the Australian community," a departmental spokesman said in a statement issued Thursday by the Department of Immigration and Citizenship.

"This is not discrimination. A disability in itself is not grounds for failing the health requirement — it is a question of the cost implications to the community," the statement said.

Moeller said he would appeal the decision.

"We like to live here, we have settled in well, we are welcomed by the community here and we don't want to give up just because the federal government doesn't welcome my son," he told reporters.

Moeller has powerful supporters. Victorian Premier John Brumby has pledged to support the family's appeal, and federal Health Minister Nicola Roxon said Friday she would speak to the immigration minister about the case.

Roxon said the case must go through proper channels — an appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal and then the immigration minister — but that "there is a valid reason for this doctor and his family to be eligible to stay here in Australia."

"As a government, we understand the importance of having doctors working in our rural and regional communities and we support them in many ways and continue to do this," Roxon said.

Don McRae, director of clinical services at Wimmera Health Care Group, said the hospital had invested a lot of time and energy in recruiting the German specialist to Horsham, about 100 miles northwest of Melbourne.

"We were very surprised by the decision," he said of the immigration department's rejection. "It's distressing for Dr. Moeller's family and distressing for the community who have welcomed him and relied on his medical services."

Immigration Minister Chris Evans has no power to intervene in the case until the review tribunal or a court upholds the department's decision.

David Tolleson, executive director of the Atlanta-based National Down Syndrome Congress, said he was disappointed by the decision.

"What is the cost implication to the community of a doctor shortage?" Tolleson asked. "I assume the son had the same costs for the last two years and they were happy to have the family and use the dad as a doctor."

Down syndrome, caused by an extra chromosome, is characterized by mental retardation of varying degrees. Those with Down syndrome also can have other problems: Nearly half will have a heart defect, some serious enough to require surgery soon after birth.

Tolleson said that people with Down syndrome have a spectrum of abilities.

"Some need more support, some go on to graduate from college with a four-year degree, and most are somewhere in between," he said.

The immigration department said it appreciates Moeller's contribution to the community but said it must follow the relevant laws in considering residency applications.

"If we did not have a health requirement, the costs to the community and health system would not be sustainable," the statement said.

More than 150,000 migrants settled in Australia in 2007-08, the department said.

Shortages of medical practitioners in rural parts of Australia have led a number of recent government initiatives to boost the numbers of doctors and nurses nationwide.

___

Associated Press Writer Carley Petesch in New York contributed to this report.

[tt11758]

In a state with socialized medicine, how big a step is it to go from denying permanent residency on the grounds of healthcare costs, to instituting a program of euthanasia for those the government deems to be eating up more than their "fair share" of medical costs?  I mean, we already kill the unborn, why not the old and infirmed?

[alfsauve]

In a state with socialized medicine, [snip]why not the old and infirmed?

They don't actually out and out target the elderly.  Invariably what happen is rationing.  Some central committee sets down guidelines. They determine survivability and sustainability. The elderly just naturally come up short.  BUT OH-NO they don't "target" the elderly.

Alf
"Key question #2:  Which economic system do you think is best for distributing scare goods and resources?  Capitalism or Socialism?"   

[tt11758]

They don't actually out and out target the elderly.  Invariably what happen is rationing.  Some central committee sets down guidelines. They determine survivability and sustainability. The elderly just naturally come up short.  BUT OH-NO they don't "target" the elderly.

Alf
"Key question #2:  Which economic system do you think is best for distributing scare goods and resources?  Capitalism or Socialism?"   

Capitalism, without question.  So what do I win? 

[alfsauve]

So what do I win? 

If enough of us don't get out and vote you'll win:

[Sponsor]

[tt11758]

I jokingly asked my doctor the other day if, in the case of an Obama Presidency, she would automatically become a government employee, or if she'd be required to take a Civil Service test first.

She was NOT amused.   

[runstowin]

In a state with socialized medicine, how big a step is it to go from denying permanent residency on the grounds of healthcare costs, to instituting a program of euthanasia for those the government deems to be eating up more than their "fair share" of medical costs?  I mean, we already kill the unborn, why not the old and infirmed?

+1
I have not noticed a principle in the US constitution that allows for a government role in health care.
We all would be much better off if we got rid of government involvement in health care.

[tombogan03884]

It was posted in another thread , but in the 90's the IRS seized the Mustang Ranch for back taxes, under the forfiture rules they have to run the business to get their money back. The US government could not make a profit selling SEX , they finally had to auction it off at a loss.
This is who people want running their MEDICAL CARE ?

[alfsauve]

Having consulted with a health care provider and gained some insight into government control over it, I was most disgusted with the whole "certificate of need" process that exists in most states.   You can't just open a hospital, you have to prove there's a need for one.  It's a sneaky way for hospital investors (many times doctors) to control their market and prevent competition.

One of the arguments elitists use for government control of health care is how vital it is and how it can't be left to the free market.   I ask them if there are shortages in some areas of nurses or doctors and invariably they say yes there are or have been.  I then ask them if they've ever noticed a shortage of nail care salons or tanning companies.  "Why, no", they'll respond cluelessly.   

Hmmm, if free market works most excellently for trivial things like, nail care, tanning and, oh, veterinarians, shouldn't it work just as well for vital things like human health care?   

[tt11758]

Having consulted with a health care provider and gained some insight into government control over it, I was most disgusted with the whole "certificate of need" process that exists in most states.   You can't just open a hospital, you have to prove there's a need for one.  It's a sneaky way for hospital investors (many times doctors) to control their market and prevent competition.

One of the arguments elitists use for government control of health care is how vital it is and how it can't be left to the free market.   I ask them if there are shortages in some areas of nurses or doctors and invariably they say yes there are or have been.  I then ask them if they've ever noticed a shortage of nail care salons or tanning companies.  "Why, no", they'll respond cluelessly.   

Hmmm, if free market works most excellently for trivial things like, nail care, tanning and, oh, veterinarians, shouldn't it work just as well for vital things like human health care?   

Head Shot!!!