*Sigh* So which AR should I get?

[Hazcat]

M25,

There are lots of stories about some guy had some rifle Ishy, Garand etc. blow up due to civilian ammo.  Notice that it's always "I heard about".

I realize that you say it happened to your operating rod.

All I can say is before I bought my Ishy (Enfield rebuilt for 7.62) all I heard was "Don't shoot .308 from it".  I searched the NET and saw lots of "I heard" stories.  The only time I came upon facts was guys that have shot thousands of rounds of .308 from their Ishy, the NRA article mentioned above and one other article (not sure if I saved it) describing the process of proofing, how the Military goes to at least 2X the normal pressure to proof, how civilian ammo is well short of SAAMI standards and that Mil specs for ammo are higher (and 'looser') than SAAMI and that any rifle built for a Military caliber that can shoot a civilian equivalent can do so with no pressure problems.  Head spacing may cause problems if the chamber is tight but that usually only happens when some one tries to shoot military ammo from a civilian gun.  That was pointed out that it should not be done in older civilian guns.

[Fatman]

In my searches, I came across this:

http://www.7-62.com/index.asp

[Fatman]

Alright, I've decided. DPMS 7.62 Sportical.  The bad news - it's on order. Missed one in stock by two weeks. Dealer already had two more on order, so it may not be 8 months, lol.

Shortish barrel but it's a solid, no frills platform. 

[ericire12]

Remington in .243

[Fatman]

DPMS makes the Rem AR hunters, I believe.  DPMS says their .308 platform is the base for  .308/ 300 SAUM/ .243/ .260/ .338 Federal/ 6.5 Creedmoor. So I'd have future options, I'm assuming. I used 'assume', so someone let me know if I'm an ass for doing so. 

[Sponsor]

[Big Frank]

If the 7.62mm Sportical has an extruded upper like the 5.56mm does I would look for something else. Extrusions may be okay, but I like forgings better than something that's squished out as if by a Play-Doh Fun Factory. Forging compacts and aligns the molecules in the metal making it stronger and it's a harder alloy to start with.

The best information I have on 7.62mm vs. .308 Winchester says the ammo is the same externally but the mil-spec brass is thicker. That reduces the case capacity and raises the pressure a lot higher than SAAMI spec .308. The mil-spec chambers are longer and looser to accomodate more fouling build-up or to keep hot brass from swelling up and sticking in the chamber during (and after) full-auto fire. Thinner .308 brass MAY stretch excessively in 7.62 chambers. 7.62mm will have higher than SAMMI spec pressures in .308 chambers. The chance of either causing a problem seems to be a very remote, but real, possibility. Of course, all that could just be BS.

[Fatman]

If the 7.62mm Sportical has an extruded upper like the 5.56mm does I would look for something else. Extrusions may be okay, but I like forgings better than something that's squished out as if by a Play-Doh Fun Factory. Forging compacts and aligns the molecules in the metal making it stronger and it's a harder alloy to start with.

The best information I have on 7.62mm vs. .308 Winchester says the ammo is the same externally but the mil-spec brass is thicker. That reduces the case capacity and raises the pressure a lot higher than SAAMI spec .308. The mil-spec chambers are longer and looser to accomodate more fouling build-up or to keep hot brass from swelling up and sticking in the chamber during (and after) full-auto fire. Thinner .308 brass MAY stretch excessively in 7.62 chambers. 7.62mm will have higher than SAMMI spec pressures in .308 chambers. The chance of either causing a problem seems to be a very remote, but real, possibility. Of course, all that could just be BS.

Yup, that's the feel I got for the differences between 308 and 7.62.

As to extrusion v forged, DPMS uses 6066 T6 extruded, which is a high strength alloy, then heat treated and artificially aged to achieve  extremely uniform properties.  The T6 treatment makes aluminum from different starting sources uniform in physical properties. 
http://www.bikepro.com/products/metals/alum.html

[Fatman]

*Sigh* again... one of my local shops has a 7.62 on order from DPMS for over a year... said it was a custom jobber, but...
the only ARs coming in from anyone are 5.56.

AND to make matters worse, I found out PA doesn't let you hunt with semis, 4 round mag or no.  Not good, I can't figure that one out.

[Michael Bane]

Sorry I'm late on this, guys! If you don't have a 5.56, that'd by my number one choice...ammo availability and simple versatility.

1) Stag (an advertiser, but the two that I have are superb and at a fair price)
2) S&W M&P (overpriced, but an excellent gun...my go-to AR)
3) DPMS (in short supply right now)
4) Rock River (I don't personally own one, but about a billion of my friends do and they all swear by them)
5) Sig 556 (heavy, but a really nice rifle)
6) J&T Distributing/Double Star (what can I say? cheap and works...one of my first ARs in the pre-Ban days)
7) JP Enterprises (pricey and worth every penny)

Get many, many magazines! Brownell's & Magpuls are my first choices...both are rare right now...

Michael B

[fullautovalmet76]

Sorry I'm late on this, guys! If you don't have a 5.56, that'd by my number one choice...ammo availability and simple versatility.

1) Stag (an advertiser, but the two that I have are superb and at a fair price)
2) S&W M&P (overpriced, but an excellent gun...my go-to AR)
3) DPMS (in short supply right now)
4) Rock River (I don't personally own one, but about a billion of my friends do and they all swear by them)
5) Sig 556 (heavy, but a really nice rifle)
6) J&T Distributing/Double Star (what can I say? cheap and works...one of my first ARs in the pre-Ban days)
7) JP Enterprises (pricey and worth every penny)

Get many, many magazines! Brownell's & Magpuls are my first choices...both are rare right now...

Michael B

The above came from MB and he or either of you can answer this question. What makes a really good AR? Using the list above, I take the opinion of someone who is an expert in his field; as I should. But what makes a really good AR and why?

My profession is in finance and IT (mostly IT). I used to sell PCs and Macs years ago and I could tell one a Mac was better and I would could show one why. So any insight would be great on what the AR quality scale.