Author Topic: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State  (Read 6873 times)

Teresa Heilevang

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Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« on: November 21, 2008, 02:07:26 PM »
Just heard on Fox News...

Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State that Obama has offered her.


Frickin" shocker...... NOT!

Crap.............We are going to be smothered by the damned Demos'.  >:( >:( >:(
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sanjuancb

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2008, 02:19:56 PM »
 :-[

Seriously!? Ugh. Who can imagine what will happen when this administration takes over?
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
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ericire12

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2008, 02:40:25 PM »
The empty suit picks the empty pantsuit...... Those with foreign policy experience (and gun owners) need not apply!
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ericire12

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2008, 02:57:33 PM »
Everything I needed to learn in life I learned from Country Music.

tumblebug

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2008, 03:25:46 PM »
 We aim to please , so you aim too please.

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #5 on: Today at 05:35:41 PM »

1776 Rebel

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2008, 03:26:55 PM »
My understanding is that the Sec. of State will make the appointments to the UN Small Arms Conf. That means a John Bolton is NOT going to stand up for American rights.

Remember that a UN Treaty trumps the US Constitution. So an easy way to side step all the nasty 2A stuff is to sign a radical left anti-gun treaty. Then it's all over in an instant. The 2A becomes history. I bet that only a few Americans or gun owners will even be aware of what happens until too late.

jnevis

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2008, 05:12:22 PM »
My understanding is that the Sec. of State will make the appointments to the UN Small Arms Conf. That means a John Bolton is NOT going to stand up for American rights.

Remember that a UN Treaty trumps the US Constitution. So an easy way to side step all the nasty 2A stuff is to sign a radical left anti-gun treaty. Then it's all over in an instant. The 2A becomes history. I bet that only a few Americans or gun owners will even be aware of what happens until too late.

That is not true.   A Treaty doesn't trump the Constitution.  Any Treaty must be ratified by Congress and if not ratified or passed are not enforcable.  If ratified local laws, which the Constituition is the basis, still apply.
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Hazcat

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2008, 05:28:50 PM »
My understanding is that the Sec. of State will make the appointments to the UN Small Arms Conf. That means a John Bolton is NOT going to stand up for American rights.

Remember that a UN Treaty trumps the US Constitution. So an easy way to side step all the nasty 2A stuff is to sign a radical left anti-gun treaty. Then it's all over in an instant. The 2A becomes history. I bet that only a few Americans or gun owners will even be aware of what happens until too late.

Where is this stated in the Constitution? Article VI says that treaties are Part of the supreme law of the land but it does not state that a treaty can over ride constitutional guarantees like the 2A.
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1776 Rebel

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2008, 06:23:46 PM »
Geeze I didn't mean to set off a firestorm...First I am not a lawyer but I have read lawyers that say such. I am clipping the following from a UCLA prof who summarizes the argument. (I believe he has worked with Dave Kopel at the NRA)..In any case International law (treaties) certainly can shape US legal matters.


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 http://volokh.com/2003_09_28_volokh_archive.html#106519175194385361

[Eugene Volokh, 10/3/2003 07:35:51 AM]
Signing treaties may erode the Bill of Rights: American decisions to sign on to international treaties may erode the protections of the Bill of Rights, for instance the First Amendment. Yes, the Supreme Court has supposedly said otherwise, in Reid v. Covert (1957): "[N]o agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on the [federal government] which is free from the restraints of the Constitution" (speaking of the Bill of Rights). But it turns out that this supremacy of the Bill of Rights really isn't that strong: The President and the Senate can, in the long run, "insinuat[e] international law" that would create "a partial displacement of constitutional hegemony" (for instance, with "an international norm against hate speech . . . supply[ing] a basis for prohibiting it, the First Amendment notwithstanding"). "In the short term," international norms would and should be "relevan[t] . . . in domestic constitutional interpretation." But "In the long run, it may point to the Constitution's more complete subordination."

     These quotes are not from some anti-internationalist "The U.N. is coming to take away our liberties" conservatives. They are from a recent article by Prof. Peter Spiro, one of the leading American international law scholars; the article, called Treaties, International Law, and Constitutional Rights, was published in the Stanford Law Review, which is generally seen as one of the top 3 legal journals in the country.

     Prof. Spiro is both defending the notion that treaties should be able to trump constitutional rights -- "If some constitutional norms are more appropriately set at the international level" (and he believes they are), "that should justify a treaty power that, in some cases, overcomes even the Bill of Rights" -- and predicting that treaties will over time do so. Courts, he acknowledges, would try to "maintain[] the formal hegemony of the domestic constitution," but "this formal hegemony may disguise a loss of domestic constitutional autonomy over the long run." "Constitutional rights 'adjusted' by treaty norms are changed by them. The Constitution is read to conform with the treaty."

     Of course, some people may be quite happy about this: They might well conclude that parts of the Bill of Rights should be superseded by "international" norms. They may think the international lawmaking community (mostly, I suspect, composed of European legal and political elites, plus of course those segments of American legal and political elites that are involved in this field) will indeed reach better results than those provided for by the current understanding of the U.S. Constitution.

     But those of us who disagree should vigilantly watch for, and resist, the "displacement of constitutional hegemony" that the article welcomes. We should insist that the President and the Senate consistently stress in all the treaties they sign and ratify that our agreement to the treaty is constrained by our Constitution, and that the treaty should be read to conform to the Constitution, and not the other way around. We should criticize judges who rely on international norms in interpreting American constitutional provisions (in this respect, reading Prof. Spiro's article has led me to reconsider some of my views in this post, and to view with much more alarm reliance on international law in American constitutional interpretation). And we should assiduously publicize the ways in which international rules are, in our view, worse than ours, for instance to show that foreign bans on "hate speech" actually end up banning (as American First Amendment thinking would have suggested) a good deal of speech that deserves to be protected (see, for instance, this post by David Bernstein).

     Our Constitution is far from perfect, both as written and as interpreted. I think courts should indeed change their views on many issues, and people should try to press courts to do so. But this should be our decision as Americans. We should not cede our control over our constitutional rights to international bodies, international professional elites, or even to our own President and Senate.

     In any event, that's just my opinion. Read the Stanford Law Review article, which is fortunately quite readable and not terribly long (30 law review pages) for a different view.


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You can also check out Dave Kopel's article here on the UN vs. US rights. As you can see there is a lively discussion on this topic. That is why the appointment of US judges and SCOTUS judges is so important. They will determine if international law is used in the interpretation of our rights.

http://www.davekopel.com/2a/Foreign/UN-To-World.htm

pops1911

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Re: Hillary Clinton accepts Secy of State
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2008, 06:47:19 PM »
I think it's time for a few well placed ..... to fix this problem.!!!!!
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